Re: introduction, and first query

  • From: Dorene Cornwell <dorenefc@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:32:51 -0700

Hi Sameer

Welcome to the list. Do not worry about asking questions. That is what the
list is for and everybody has different things they have to ask questions
about.

Tyler gave you a pretty good description of what needs to happen for sighted
people to read your design: you need to space the controls horizontally and
vertically far enough apart that sighted people can read each label and see
each control. Then Dashell I think also helped.

Do you read Braille? Does it ever happen that new braille gets written over
the top of old Braille and you can't read either the new or the old? From
your description of your colleagues' reaction, I am pretty sure something
like that is what is happening to your form.

Or think of it like children's blocks in a grid. You want one block in each
cell of a grid, not the blocks all piled up in one square.

Anyway, you also gave a clue about how to fix it when JAWS read the two
items with Left 0 vertical 0. I think and someone will correct me if I am
wrong that 0 is on the top left for vertical and horizontal axes and that
the numbers get bigger as you move down and to the right across the screen.
So to place things correctly on your form, you have to move to a position on
the screen before placing the item. I actually do not know how to use JAWS
and the VB cursor to do that but I bet someone on the list can help you with
that step.

Once you figure that out, then you just think of the next question to ask.


For myself, I am a sort of sighted person, but now I use JAWS and it really
helps. I also long ago learned that everyone will be happier if I do not try
to design UI. It is important that I know what the different elements are
and what they do. If I were taking a class I would do my best for what the
class requires. I also know blind people who do design UI and there are lots
of theories about what makes good UI (user interface) but if I have a choice
I will let a sighted person do the visual elements and concentrate on
helping them understand how labels etc help make the design accessible for
everyone.

Next question. Good luck

DoreneC
Seattle WA




On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 6:30 AM, sameer manohtra
<sameermanohtra@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> hey guys,
> i'm sure, that all you might be busy in your respective works, and
> possiblly enjoying the weekends.
> in fact you should, but hope this mail will not prove a donting stuff to
> you.
> well, just wanted to request, that please answer my query in a more
> brief manner as i have requested in my last mail.
> i know, that i can't bother you for answering, but hope i at least can
> do a humble  request.
> if you think, that i could have be a bit more pationt, then you are
> right to some extent, but since the query is a bit more urgent, and
> further i'm not aware from mailing list's adicates as i'm not
> subscribed to any other mailing list as of now, please excuse me in
> case you didn't liked me reminding you for responding.
> hope to have a quick response, again a very humble request by a tiny
> creature.
> sameer manohtra.
>
> On 6/13/09, sameer manohtra <sameermanohtra@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > First, deep gratitude for finding my silly query worth answering.
> > Thanks to all of them who have welcomed me on this pleasant glory.
> > In fact, I highly admire all of your’s techno skills, and therefore
> > request to please explicate the thing in more easyer words for me.
> > I told, that I’m extreme beginner when it comes of programming, and
> > therefore I find my self unable in understanding several highly
> > sentric words.
> > Apologies for that trubble.
> > Say, for example, I have two text boxes, two labels, and two buttons.
> > What should be their best positions, and why?
> > Yeh, I can hear jaws announcing several stuffs like top 0, left 0,
> > etc, but I really have no idea how to put these sort of positions
> > suitably.
> > Those who have asked, I’m a totally blind since birth, and I even have
> > no cited person to explain me about these layout in such a way, that
> > can help me while setting it up.
> > In wait of your quick responses,
> > Sameer manohtra.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/12/09, DaShiell, Jude T.  CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
> > <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> I used those as a child but when building was done in order to make
> >> buildings stronger, bricks were half overlayed just as is done in real
> >> building masonry.  A second row was offset halfway so the center of a
> >> brick for example on the second row covered each join of bricks on the
> >> first row.  The third row had its centers right over the joints on the
> >> second row and so on.  True with a very poor structural design a
> >> congenitally blind student might start to get an approximation of how a
> >> form would need to be designed later (no offsets), bricks placed at
> >> proportional distances and so on.  I also think there's an extremely
> >> high probability those in the study did use legos and building blocks as
> >> children and it didn't help either.  I think a good predictor whether an
> >> individual will not have trouble designing forms is if they did really
> >> well in Calculus and had no trouble with the visualization exercises.
> >> That leaves me out, and for your information sighted developers
> >> routinely fix up my forms before management gets to see them when I'm
> >> doing development.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rot47: <;F56]52D9:6==@?2GJ]>:=>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan
> Schulz
> >> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 13:30
> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: introduction, and first query
> >>
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> i find this theory a LOC as especially people blind from birth can use
> >> lego boards and rectangle bricks to learn spacial relations and be
> >> better able to layout forms.
> >>
> >> Bryan Schulz
> >> The BEST Solution
> >> www.best-acts.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26"
> >> <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:41 AM
> >> Subject: RE: introduction, and first query
> >>
> >>
> >> Over on the access-l mailing list a summary of the results of a study
> >> were released that make it pretty clear how well blind programmers end
> >> up doing with graphical user interface design depends strongly on when
> >> they became blind.  Those blind at birth have the most difficulty
> >> designing such interfaces and those with some memory of vision have the
> >> least difficulty.  That study will need replication and likely will have
> >> impacts on interface design in the future.  A swag on my part is you
> >> like me were blind at birth or so shortly after you have no memory of
> >> vision based on your colleagues descriptions of your interface design.
> >> The only way this facet of your work is likely to improve fast is if one
> >> of your colleagues does a walkthrough of your interface with you and
> >> describes intelligible standards that will enable you to fix your work
> >> up and your colleague will need to check your fixes to be sure both of
> >> you are on the same page.  So far as I know neither Microsoft nor any
> >> other vendor has put a tool on the market to take a working console
> >> application and make another instance of it that's a windows form
> >> application.  Should that ever happen provided its output is mostly
> >> acceptable lots more should be possible for you quickly.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rot47: <;F56]52D9:6==@?2GJ]>:=>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of sameer
> >> manohtra
> >> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:40
> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: introduction, and first query
> >>
> >> Hello guys,
> >> My self sameer manohtra from India, and I'm a totally blind.
> >> Due to my concealed interest in programming, I have started learning the
> >> first programming language of my life that's vb.net.
> >> In fact I'm not that highly rational when comes the question of
> >> programming, so will keep seeking your kind help.
> >> I'm not very sure about all of you people as I've just found this list
> >> when I was googling something on the same topic, but I'm quite sure that
> >> all of you have nicely attained your endeavors, and in fact are one of
> >> the prominents of society.
> >> As I have subscribed on this list now, you will keep receiving silly
> >> questions from my side, as I'm just an apprentice in all those stuffs
> >> what you have already mastered.
> >> Before asking any queries, would like to tell, that I'm using jaws
> >> version 7.0 and VS 2005.
> >> Further, scripts of jaws for vs 2005 is installed.
> >> The first, and chief problem I'm facing from the first day of vb.net
> >> learning, is that I'm unable to set the layout of my forms.
> >> For example, I found it unattainable to set different components on
> >> their right positions as buttons, text boxes, labels, group boxes, or
> >> what so ever.
> >> I mean, that  my cited counterparts always keeps telling, that my forms
> >> looks so bizarre in terms of design.
> >> Though jaws still navigates finely, and therefore I always find my self
> >> unable satisfying my friends via designing, and proper placement of my
> >> form items.
> >> So, is there any specific technique from which we can set a relatively
> >> good layout, so that at least cited people don't finds it odd?
> >> Mostly, my text boxes would be so lower side, button would be on top,
> >> labels somewhere hidden, and all that pathetic what my friends tells me.
> >> Are  their any particular guidelines or sort of stuff about placing
> >> these ToolBox components which can make it look user friendly?
> >> In wait of your quick responses,
> >> Sameer manohtra.
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