Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks

If you don't like perl, nobody forces you to use it.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Littlefield" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks


uh oh, he's at it again.
Or does it run on more systems than perl?
Where does perl even come in? You were asking about java.
You should seriously consider a career as a sales person for perl, you seem to put all other languages down except for perl. I've personally found it to be clunky and annoying to read through, especially with their lovely variable prefixes. I also find it amusing when people string half their program (which should've actually been split up in to about 20 lines or so), on one line, as you seemed to insist python was lacking, to make for "clever coding."

Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
email: tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
web: tysdomain-com
Visit for quality software and web design.
skype: st8amnd2005

----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks


Oh my god! How could you dare to say that python's indentation requirement is unfriendly for the blind?
Have you seen what the other list members told me when I told that?

Because I told that python is accessible and with some more effort it can be used, but the indentation is not exactly friendly.

But I don't understand why python is recommended for cross platform development. Is it better than Java for cross platform development? Does it run on more systems? (Because that is independent platform developement about).
Or does it run on more systems than perl?

Well, you told that the minimum punctuation is friendly, but this is not exactly true, but each one have his preferences for this. I think one of the things I don't like in python and VB is that they don't end the lines with a semicolon, to be more clear where the current line ends, and they also don't use braces, to be also more clear where a block begins and ends.

And I really don't have anything with python in this respect. I also don't like ruby for this reason even though you told that ruby accepts those semicolons, but they are not required, so many programmers will surely skip them.

Well, I read better what you said, and it is true, you told that this is a preference of beginners, so it might be truefor beginners... I don't know.

But I also agree with you that case insensitivity is friendly.

However, I told you that I have never found util an interactive environment when you done the one for perl. I really don't know what I could use such a thing, so in my opinion it is useless.

But I am thinking that my text editor that can run any perl code could be considered very well such an environment that can get parameters from STDIN and print to STDERR and STDOUT, and it is also very accessible, and I can check and modify the code I write in previous lines... and maybe that's why I don't feel the need for another testing environment.

Anyway, you've started with "If a new programmer wants to maximize the chance of getting paid", without other specifications, but it could depend on many criteria, one of the most important beeing the location of that programmer, because the demand for programming languages are not the same in all countries.

In my country there are no very many that cares about python, or perl, or ruby, however most of the jobs are for PHP programmers and then for Java and C# and there still are some for C++ also.

So the list member that put the original question should have also told more about what he wants to do finally, because otherwise we bang our heads to give the best solution. And anyway, I would have found some disadvantages for any programming language. :-)

(I like to do that because I don't like that absolutely every time all the people present only the advantages, while we all know that there are disadvantages in every programming language. Do you remember that long list of disadvantages of perl I sent to the list some years ago?)

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks


For whatever it's worth, my present perspective on these topics is as
follows.

If a new programmer wants to maximize the chance of getting paid
employment, I suggest lerning Java, C#, or PHP.  If the primary interest
is developing web sites, I recommend PHP.  If Windows desktop
applications, I recommend either C# or Visual Basic .NET, depending on
personal preference about syntax.  If cross-platform development is the
highest priority, I recommend Python.

Regarding Python, I think its indentation requirement is unfriendly to
blind programmers, particularly speech-without-braille users.  Other
aspects of a language should also be considered, however, in judging how
friendly a language is.  Clean syntax with a minimum of punctuation
symbols often makes a language more friendly to beginners.  In the
languages I have mention so far, Python and Visual Basic are the
friendliest in that respect. Case sensitivity also makes a difference to friendliness. Visual Basic is the friendliest in that respect, since the other languages mentioned are case sensitive. An interactive environment
for testing small pieces of code is another aspect of friendliness.
Python is the best of the languages mentioned in that respect.

For anyone interested in a research project, I think the topic of what
language is easiest for a beginning blind programmer is worth
investigating.  Without empirical evidence, it is difficult to judge how
to weigh the different factors that affect the friendliness of a language.
Let me encourage any student or professional researchers on this list to
consider designing a study that may shed more light on this.

Jamal

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