Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks

  • From: <jaffar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:31:46 +0800

Hi. I don't know how many of you have heard of the MontePython Circus which was a hot british comedy act. Perhaps Teddy should form the neuclius of the AntePython Circus. Cheers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks


hi,

basically if you hate a language because you are required to indent is like any of us rejecting a $100,000/year job. If you refuse to follow logic or company standards, you don't deserve to be employed.
i can assume teddy hates visual studio as well.
Even on my own without being paid, i use the four space indenting practice per level because it is automatically done for you and it is much less confusing if you ask someone sighted to help you.
i'm starting to wish i knew python.
Bryan Schulz

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks




You do not know what you're talking about so I will stop arguing with you.
Python is not strongly typed, I do not like python because it is object
oriented. And no I don't think that everyone works with other coders. I do
think that more coders work in groups than work alone because if you
actually have enough software sales you will have to team up with others.
You are just running in circles and arguing yourself into a Teddy world. It is not a Teddy world and unless you have even programmed one application in Python you have no reason to talk against it. And I mean a real application
not some toy.  I have coded in your favorite language and I see little
difference between pearl except one uses braces like C and one doesn't so
unlike you I have coded in both. In fact my commercial software still uses
pearl even though I am actually thinking now that I code in python on a
regular bases I might switch that code to python.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:59 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks

Oh yes we mean something different by "accessibility".

Good practice coding is not something absolutely true for everyone, but it
it means more exactly "good practice for the sighted programmers".
Well, I don't work in a team of sighted programmers, so I don't care about
those good practices, because I am the single person that should use that
source code.

So you are talking about the accessibility especially for the sighted you
need to work with, and care less that you need to find workarounds to use
the language.

And you also talk about good practices which are used only in some
situations. You say that python is objected oriented and that's why you like

it.
You can create object oriented programs in Java, C#, Ruby, perl and many
other languages that don't force you to indent the code, so this is not an
advantage of python when compare it with other languages.

I know, most software companies like to use strongly typed languages and
those who force the programmer to do a "one way" coding style, because this way all the members of the team can understand the code easier. But do you think that all the programmers in the world work in teams, or that all the
blind programmers work in teams with other sighted programmers?

If they do and they need to accomodate with a certain language, than it is ok, python can be used by the blind, I didn't say that it can't be used, but

what I said it was that it is less friendly than other languages, and you
can't say that this is not true. If you need to find workarounds for
something, this mean that there is a problem there.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Stockton" <nstockton@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:22 AM
Subject: Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks


Python teaches good coding practices and it's not that hard to indent. In

fact most programmers that use an IDE don't even bother as the program
does it for them. I dare say that visual studio is probably allot harder to use by far if you don't happen to own a copy of jaws or windoweyes with

their respective scripts.  I could also say that Windows isn't as
accessible as the linux console as windows uses pixels to represent
textual information rather then... text but windows like python and visual

studio can be made accessible.
I think we have different definitions of what accessibility means.  I
define accessibility for myself as being able to independently accomplish
the same tasks as my sighted counterparts using the same tools that they
use. If I have a program that doesn't fit my needs fully I try to find a work around, After all no language is perfect. They each have their good
and bad points.
If I'm motivated to write a program I'm going to do my best and give it my

100%.  I personally think python is a good programming language because
its powerful yet easy to learn and because it teaches good coding
practices and object oriented programming. Why should I be excluded from learning the same programming languages and good coding standards that the

sighted programmers have to use.  It would be  worse as the exclusion
would be self-imposed.  Just because you don't like python doesn't mean
that others wont. Neither of us can speak for the blind community and so
labeling a language we don't like with a blanket term of inaccessibility
when others have stated that it's quite accessible is silly.

Nick Stockton
----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: ewby on programming need some tips and tricks


But how do you know what is easy for the blind community?
Have you made a poll?

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