RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new voice?

  • From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 15:39:06 -0500

Sure. Just email me.
soltani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:28 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?

ah no, I went to the audio games site, and found the link there and got a 
404 error on it as well.

anyone else have the files, if so I can handle them if someone will work 
with me to get them to me!

elf
Moderator, Blind Access Help
Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
- own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
www.alacorncomputer.com
proprietor, The Grab Bag,
for blind computer users and programmers
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 7:44 PM
Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new 
voice?


> Feel free to email me at: Soltani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Must be the list.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard Traxler
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 10:41 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
> the line breaks after the n in eloquen
> then there are two spaces, a period, another space, then 20nvda.exe
>
> it looks like this:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen
> . 20nvda.exe
>
> I'll try the other address in your e-mail.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:02 PM
> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
>
>> The link should be:
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
>>
>> The website I got it from is:
>> http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=3151&p=3
>>
>> H.R. Soltani
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard 
>> Traxler
>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:56 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>> voice?
>>
>> Thanks, but:  the link you provide in your e-mail doesn't take me
>> anywhere.
>> I tried pasting the two lines together and taking out the spaces near the
>> end and I tried finishing the word "eloquen" but can't seem to guess
>> correctly.  Any suggestions?  Thanks again.
>> Howard
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 8:46 PM
>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>> voice?
>>
>>
>>> These are the instructions I read from AudioGames.net.
>>>
>>> 1. Download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
>>> 2. Extract the files.
>>> 3. Put the files in the program files/nvda/synthDrivers folder it may be
>>> under program files-x86
>>> 4. Also put the files in the /users/xxx/appdata/roming/nvda/synthDrivers
>>> 5. Start NVDA and you should have it as your first synthesizer choice
>>> above
>>> Espeak.  If you don't, you may have to delete the NVDA ini file under
>>> appdata/roming/NVDA
>>> 6. If you do not see the directory under your user folder, you may need
>>> to
>>> show hidden files/folders.
>>>
>>>
>>> H.R. Soltani
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard
>>> Traxler
>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:28 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>> voice?
>>>
>>> So here we are:  I have jaws and nvda on my netbook.  When I look aat 
>>> the
>>> list of synths in nvda, I don't see eloquence in there.  How do I tell
>>> nvda
>>> that it's on the machine?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Howard
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:18 PM
>>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>> voice?
>>>
>>>
>>>> The difference is, if you never purchased jaws,  there was no license
>>>> purchased. And elequoence does not bundle with NVDA.
>>>> So, if you bought something already that has elequoence... you should 
>>>> be
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> H.R. Soltani
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, 
>>>> James
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:07 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>>> voice?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Elf,
>>>> You might want to see this page.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/FreeSpeechSynthesizerList
>>>>
>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>> Usability Services,
>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>>> Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>>>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:52 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>>> voice?
>>>>
>>>> that's what I thought, thank you
>>>>
>>>> elf
>>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>>>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>>>> for blind computer users and programmers
>>>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>>> voice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> What you are proposing is not illegal.  I am a lawyer, so if a lawyer
>>>>> on
>>>>> the list would care to discuss in what way this is illegal, please
>>>>> present
>>>>> your legal analysis.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA 
>>>>> new
>>>>> voice?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I didn't even copied the file:)
>>>>>> At installation time, my software detects if jaws is installed.
>>>>>> If it is, I simply link to that path.
>>>>>> But if you say that it is ilegal, I will delete that portion of code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:53 PM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> voice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I did not realize there were issues with using elequoence on my
>>>>>>>computer
>>>>>>> with other screen readers! Especially since I paid so much for the
>>>>>>> synthesizer and the screen reader. Never saw any licensing text for
>>>>>>> eloquence.  I disagree that it is illegal to use elequoence software
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> computer which is also running jaws or some other software that it 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> bundled with.  Now I am not a lawyer, but software is generally
>>>>>>> controled by
>>>>>>> the number of computers not the software you can use with it... is
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> correct?  Does anybody have the licensing text for elequoence?
>>>>>>> googled eloquence and NVDA and found this link:
>>>>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
>>>>>>> And there was some very clear instructions telling me to copy the
>>>>>>> files
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> some folder called synthdrive or something like that on both my
>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>> files/nvda folder and the one under appdata/roming/nvda
>>>>>>> So then I erased the nVDA.ini file and when i loaded NVDA, I found a
>>>>>>> choice
>>>>>>> of ECI above my other choices under synthesizer.
>>>>>>> This post and topic is on audiogames.net.  And has not been removed.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to assume it is at least a gray area.
>>>>>>> NVDA is quite an amazing program and I would figure there should be
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> better voices than the one it comes with.  I am most certainly
>>>>>>> donating
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the NVDA project as I really needed a good portable screen reader 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> backup
>>>>>>> for Jaws that did not cost me an arm and a leg.  In fact, just a few
>>>>>>> minutes
>>>>>>> a go, I had loaded a program, where NVDA could detect the check 
>>>>>>> boxes
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> options and Jaws could not.  I unloaded jaws and loaded NVDA.
>>>>>>> NVDA is just fantastic and I truly love the idea of an open source
>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>> reader.
>>>>>>> I am certain that the next time Jaws offers a paid upgrade or trys 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> some money out of me, I will switch to NVDA permanently.
>>>>>>> I normally never do this.  In fact, I have never done this online.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>> source software for the blind is very critical.  We need to get 
>>>>>>> costs
>>>>>>> lowered and help more people get the tools to survive and prosper!
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>> of us would even just contribute $5 to $50, we could really help
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> are trying to make a difference.
>>>>>>> Please help NVDA in any way you can.
>>>>>>> There website is: http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>>>>>> I will contribute $20 myself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> H.R. Soltani
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> voice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't really agree with them doing whatever they want since they
>>>>>>> sold
>>>>>>> it. Look at jaws; many can't afford the prices, and there would be a
>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>> less cracks and a lot more people paying if they had a better
>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>> moddle that didn't include scruing their customers out of lots of
>>>>>>> money.
>>>>>>> I would not mind at all paying $5,$20 etc for eloquence and the 
>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> use it with NVDA, but the whole "you just can't use it," is 
>>>>>>> pathetic.
>>>>>>> On 11/21/2010 10:22 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>>>>>> Basically, he doesn't like the fact that eloquence is sold with the
>>>>>>>> right to be used only by the application it is bundled with. He
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> nuance doesnt loose anything if other applications are allowed to
>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> eloquence as well.
>>>>>>>> I personally don't agree and think any company is allowed to sell
>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>> software with any license they want.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AS for legal eloquence with nvda, the only option I know about is
>>>>>>>> penvda, a u3 usb stick with nvda on it, wihch costs around 100
>>>>>>>> euros,
>>>>>>>> way above $100.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
>>>>>>>> <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:55 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have no idea what black ares said in his messsage. From what I
>>>>>>>>> gather, something about 5 dollars... Is there a paid version of
>>>>>>>>> eloquence? I know there's voxen for *nix is $5. I'd be willing to
>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>>> the same to be able to use it with NVDA on windows.
>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2010 9:43 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It's quite simple, in my view.
>>>>>>>>>> Eci's license says that eci can be used only with the application
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is distributed with. Period.
>>>>>>>>>> When those guys from NVDA  did what you said, i.e. they made an
>>>>>>>>>> nvda
>>>>>>>>>> eci driver without embedding eci itself, they were contacted by
>>>>>>>>>> IBM,
>>>>>>>>>> makers of home page reader, an app which had eloquence in it. IBM
>>>>>>>>>> requested NVAccess to remove the driver, and so they did.
>>>>>>>>>> If IBM was right or not, I can't say. I personally believe that
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> were, I think IBM read carefully the license before contacting
>>>>>>>>>> NVAccess.
>>>>>>>>>> The license may be different for jaws, but I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>> either. It seems eloquence is sold to a developer and only that
>>>>>>>>>> developer has the right to use the synth.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares"
>>>>>>>>>> <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:18 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
>>>>>>>>>> NVDA
>>>>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So let talk about the case:
>>>>>>>>>>> I bought Jaws.
>>>>>>>>>>> Jaws came with elocuence.
>>>>>>>>>>> I Make a software that interfaces with eci and speaks trough 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> interface.
>>>>>>>>>>> My program has no eci or elocuence in it.
>>>>>>>>>>> It simply uses what is on the computer.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the user has let say jaws, ok it has elocuence so my software
>>>>>>>>>>> speaks.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the user has not jaws, there is no ECI  and that is, my
>>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>> can not speak using eci.
>>>>>>>>>>> So the one who sells Jaws with elocuence is not afected, 
>>>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>>>> to use my software with elocuence, the user must have or buy
>>>>>>>>>>> elocuence separately so pay that money.
>>>>>>>>>>> Where is the problem here?
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't see where the elocuence team loose!
>>>>>>>>>>> So back to your example, if using your software needs that game
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> be installed so to be boght from me, there is no reason to be un
>>>>>>>>>>> happy.
>>>>>>>>>>> The model you describe here is that, if I buy jaws with 
>>>>>>>>>>> elocuence
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> pay 5 dolar for elocuence
>>>>>>>>>>> But if I wana use elocuence in my application I must pay
>>>>>>>>>>> Elocuence
>>>>>>>>>>> another 5 dolar, so I pay twice for same code.
>>>>>>>>>>> I know that they don't sell code, but rights to use the code and
>>>>>>>>>>> that is what I don't like.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trouble"
>>>>>>>>>>> <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 4:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA
>>>>>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason its illegal, is because the programmer of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Put code in that software to allow its use with another piece 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> software., and they paid for that right. now just because that
>>>>>>>>>>>> software comes with another chunk of software. Does not give 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> the right to use it, because you didn't pay for it. To keep 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> software billable. The program uses special code that lets what
>>>>>>>>>>>> ever software that wants to use it the right, but has to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> paid.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Its all about money and that chunk of software is not free.
>>>>>>>>>>>> if you wrote a score keeper for a friends game say football. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now
>>>>>>>>>>>> it works great and he gave you $10. Now both are happy and you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have the thought that you can get $10 for that code. now lets
>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>> me and a few other programmers take that code. use it in our 
>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>> games and sell those games. now wouldn't you feel like you get
>>>>>>>>>>>> your $10 too? When we give you nothing and act like the code 
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> free, because it came with another game?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At 08:57 AM 11/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why, If I have a legal copy of eci, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> together
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with jaws,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not allowed to use it from another screen reader If I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the possibility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I write the program, I don't embed any kind of synth in it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I search on the target machine what synths are there and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to use one of them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why this is ilegal...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Moisei"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <vortex37@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 3:17 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Here's what the NVDA devs have to say about the subject:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDAAndEloquenceSituation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, using eci api from another program if you don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> licensed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of eloquence with it is illegal, it seems. It doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the specs are freely available on the web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Btw, that NVDA driver for eloquence really exists, but it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal, so it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not supported by the developers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "QuentinC"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <quentinc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've also heard whispers of an eloquence thing floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not sure if that's legal or if someone can give it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I read somewhere that using eloquence outside of jaws or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually illegal. I don't know if it is really true. That
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really be clarified, perhaps in a separate thread, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Additionnal question: if eloquence is already installed on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite easy to open the DLL and start to use the functions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on this DLL is even available on the web. Is that illegal ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really wish that eloquence  would be easily available in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely legally. Because espeak is... how to say...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrific.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>>>>>> Verizon FIOS support tech
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
>>>>>>>>>>>> substance."
>>>>>>>>>>>> --Sam Brown
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blindeudora list owner.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe or info:
>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended
>>>> solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
>>>> If
>>>> you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
>>>> immediately
>>>> and then delete it.  If you are not the intended recipient, you must 
>>>> not
>>>> keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this e-mail without the 
>>>> author's
>>>> prior permission.  The views expressed in this e-mail message do not
>>>> necessarily represent the views of Highmark Inc., its subsidiaries, or
>>>> affiliates.
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> 

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at 
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at 
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

Other related posts: