RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new voice?

  • From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:46:50 -0500

These are the instructions I read from AudioGames.net.

1. Download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
2. Extract the files.
3. Put the files in the program files/nvda/synthDrivers folder it may be
under program files-x86
4. Also put the files in the /users/xxx/appdata/roming/nvda/synthDrivers 
5. Start NVDA and you should have it as your first synthesizer choice above
Espeak.  If you don't, you may have to delete the NVDA ini file under
appdata/roming/NVDA
6. If you do not see the directory under your user folder, you may need to
show hidden files/folders.


H.R. Soltani

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard Traxler
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:28 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?

So here we are:  I have jaws and nvda on my netbook.  When I look aat the 
list of synths in nvda, I don't see eloquence in there.  How do I tell nvda 
that it's on the machine?

Thanks.

Howard
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new 
voice?


> The difference is, if you never purchased jaws,  there was no license
> purchased. And elequoence does not bundle with NVDA.
> So, if you bought something already that has elequoence... you should be
> fine.
>
> H.R. Soltani
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:07 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
> Hi Elf,
> You might want to see this page.
>
> http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/FreeSpeechSynthesizerList
>
> Jim Homme,
> Usability Services,
> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
> Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:52 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
> that's what I thought, thank you
>
> elf
> Moderator, Blind Access Help
> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
> www.alacorncomputer.com
> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
> for blind computer users and programmers
> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
>
>> Hello,
>> What you are proposing is not illegal.  I am a lawyer, so if a lawyer on
>> the list would care to discuss in what way this is illegal, please 
>> present
>> your legal analysis.
>> Best,
>> Dennis
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>> voice?
>>
>>
>>>I didn't even copied the file:)
>>> At installation time, my software detects if jaws is installed.
>>> If it is, I simply link to that path.
>>> But if you say that it is ilegal, I will delete that portion of code.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:53 PM
>>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>> voice?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I did not realize there were issues with using elequoence on my 
>>>>computer
>>>> with other screen readers! Especially since I paid so much for the
>>>> synthesizer and the screen reader. Never saw any licensing text for
>>>> eloquence.  I disagree that it is illegal to use elequoence software on
>>>> a
>>>> computer which is also running jaws or some other software that it is
>>>> bundled with.  Now I am not a lawyer, but software is generally
>>>> controled by
>>>> the number of computers not the software you can use with it... is this
>>>> not
>>>> correct?  Does anybody have the licensing text for elequoence?
>>>> googled eloquence and NVDA and found this link:
>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
>>>> And there was some very clear instructions telling me to copy the files
>>>> in
>>>> some folder called synthdrive or something like that on both my 
>>>> programs
>>>> files/nvda folder and the one under appdata/roming/nvda
>>>> So then I erased the nVDA.ini file and when i loaded NVDA, I found a
>>>> choice
>>>> of ECI above my other choices under synthesizer.
>>>> This post and topic is on audiogames.net.  And has not been removed.  I
>>>> have
>>>> to assume it is at least a gray area.
>>>> NVDA is quite an amazing program and I would figure there should be 
>>>> some
>>>> better voices than the one it comes with.  I am most certainly donating
>>>> to
>>>> the NVDA project as I really needed a good portable screen reader and
>>>> backup
>>>> for Jaws that did not cost me an arm and a leg.  In fact, just a few
>>>> minutes
>>>> a go, I had loaded a program, where NVDA could detect the check boxes
>>>> for
>>>> options and Jaws could not.  I unloaded jaws and loaded NVDA.
>>>> NVDA is just fantastic and I truly love the idea of an open source
>>>> screen
>>>> reader.
>>>> I am certain that the next time Jaws offers a paid upgrade or trys to
>>>> get
>>>> some money out of me, I will switch to NVDA permanently.
>>>> I normally never do this.  In fact, I have never done this online.  But
>>>> open
>>>> source software for the blind is very critical.  We need to get costs
>>>> lowered and help more people get the tools to survive and prosper!  If
>>>> each
>>>> of us would even just contribute $5 to $50, we could really help people
>>>> who
>>>> are trying to make a difference.
>>>> Please help NVDA in any way you can.
>>>> There website is: http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>>> I will contribute $20 myself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> H.R. Soltani
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>>> voice?
>>>>
>>>> I can't really agree with them doing whatever they want since they sold
>>>> it. Look at jaws; many can't afford the prices, and there would be a 
>>>> lot
>>>> less cracks and a lot more people paying if they had a better business
>>>> moddle that didn't include scruing their customers out of lots of 
>>>> money.
>>>> I would not mind at all paying $5,$20 etc for eloquence and the right 
>>>> to
>>>> use it with NVDA, but the whole "you just can't use it," is pathetic.
>>>> On 11/21/2010 10:22 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>>> Basically, he doesn't like the fact that eloquence is sold with the
>>>>> right to be used only by the application it is bundled with. He things
>>>>> nuance doesnt loose anything if other applications are allowed to use
>>>>> eloquence as well.
>>>>> I personally don't agree and think any company is allowed to sell its
>>>>> software with any license they want.
>>>>>
>>>>> AS for legal eloquence with nvda, the only option I know about is
>>>>> penvda, a u3 usb stick with nvda on it, wihch costs around 100 euros,
>>>>> way above $100.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
>>>>> <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:55 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no idea what black ares said in his messsage. From what I
>>>>>> gather, something about 5 dollars... Is there a paid version of
>>>>>> eloquence? I know there's voxen for *nix is $5. I'd be willing to pay
>>>>>> the same to be able to use it with NVDA on windows.
>>>>>> On 11/20/2010 9:43 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>>>>> It's quite simple, in my view.
>>>>>>> Eci's license says that eci can be used only with the application it
>>>>>>> is distributed with. Period.
>>>>>>> When those guys from NVDA  did what you said, i.e. they made an nvda
>>>>>>> eci driver without embedding eci itself, they were contacted by IBM,
>>>>>>> makers of home page reader, an app which had eloquence in it. IBM
>>>>>>> requested NVAccess to remove the driver, and so they did.
>>>>>>> If IBM was right or not, I can't say. I personally believe that they
>>>>>>> were, I think IBM read carefully the license before contacting
>>>>>>> NVAccess.
>>>>>>> The license may be different for jaws, but I don't think that
>>>>>>> either. It seems eloquence is sold to a developer and only that
>>>>>>> developer has the right to use the synth.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares"
>>>>>>> <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:18 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So let talk about the case:
>>>>>>>> I bought Jaws.
>>>>>>>> Jaws came with elocuence.
>>>>>>>> I Make a software that interfaces with eci and speaks trough that
>>>>>>>> interface.
>>>>>>>> My program has no eci or elocuence in it.
>>>>>>>> It simply uses what is on the computer.
>>>>>>>> If the user has let say jaws, ok it has elocuence so my software
>>>>>>>> speaks.
>>>>>>>> If the user has not jaws, there is no ECI  and that is, my software
>>>>>>>> can not speak using eci.
>>>>>>>> So the one who sells Jaws with elocuence is not afected, because,
>>>>>>>> to use my software with elocuence, the user must have or buy
>>>>>>>> elocuence separately so pay that money.
>>>>>>>> Where is the problem here?
>>>>>>>> I don't see where the elocuence team loose!
>>>>>>>> So back to your example, if using your software needs that game to
>>>>>>>> be installed so to be boght from me, there is no reason to be un
>>>>>>>> happy.
>>>>>>>> The model you describe here is that, if I buy jaws with elocuence I
>>>>>>>> pay 5 dolar for elocuence
>>>>>>>> But if I wana use elocuence in my application I must pay Elocuence
>>>>>>>> another 5 dolar, so I pay twice for same code.
>>>>>>>> I know that they don't sell code, but rights to use the code and
>>>>>>>> that is what I don't like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trouble"
>>>>>>>> <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 4:46 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The reason its illegal, is because the programmer of the software.
>>>>>>>>> Put code in that software to allow its use with another piece of
>>>>>>>>> software., and they paid for that right. now just because that
>>>>>>>>> software comes with another chunk of software. Does not give you
>>>>>>>>> the right to use it, because you didn't pay for it. To keep that
>>>>>>>>> software billable. The program uses special code that lets what
>>>>>>>>> ever software that wants to use it the right, but has to be paid.
>>>>>>>>> Its all about money and that chunk of software is not free.
>>>>>>>>> if you wrote a score keeper for a friends game say football. Now
>>>>>>>>> it works great and he gave you $10. Now both are happy and you
>>>>>>>>> have the thought that you can get $10 for that code. now lets say
>>>>>>>>> me and a few other programmers take that code. use it in our own
>>>>>>>>> games and sell those games. now wouldn't you feel like you get
>>>>>>>>> your $10 too? When we give you nothing and act like the code was
>>>>>>>>> free, because it came with another game?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At 08:57 AM 11/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why, If I have a legal copy of eci, together
>>>>>>>>>> with jaws,
>>>>>>>>>> I am not allowed to use it from another screen reader If I have
>>>>>>>>>> the possibility.
>>>>>>>>>> So I write the program, I don't embed any kind of synth in it,
>>>>>>>>>> but I search on the target machine what synths are there and I
>>>>>>>>>> try to use one of them
>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why this is ilegal...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Moisei"
>>>>>>>>>> <vortex37@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 3:17 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
>>>>>>>>>> NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    Here's what the NVDA devs have to say about the subject:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDAAndEloquenceSituation
>>>>>>>>>>> So, using eci api from another program if you don't distribute a
>>>>>>>>>>> licensed
>>>>>>>>>>> version of eloquence with it is illegal, it seems. It doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> matter that
>>>>>>>>>>> the specs are freely available on the web.
>>>>>>>>>>> Btw, that NVDA driver for eloquence really exists, but it is
>>>>>>>>>>> illegal, so it
>>>>>>>>>>> is not supported by the developers.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "QuentinC"
>>>>>>>>>>> <quentinc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've also heard whispers of an eloquence thing floating around
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not sure if that's legal or if someone can give it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I read somewhere that using eloquence outside of jaws or talks
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually illegal. I don't know if it is really true. That point
>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>> really be clarified, perhaps in a separate thread, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>> topic is
>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Additionnal question: if eloquence is already installed on a
>>>>>>>>>>>> system, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> quite easy to open the DLL and start to use the functions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>> on this DLL is even available on the web. Is that illegal ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really wish that eloquence  would be easily available in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA,
>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely legally. Because espeak is... how to say... 
>>>>>>>>>>>> terrific.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>>> Verizon FIOS support tech
>>>>>>>>> "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
>>>>>>>>> substance."
>>>>>>>>> --Sam Brown
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blindeudora list owner.
>>>>>>>>> To subscribe or info: //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ty
>>>>
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