Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new voice?

I didn't even copied the file:)
At installation time, my software detects if jaws is installed.
If it is, I simply link to that path.
But if you say that it is ilegal, I will delete that portion of code.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new voice?


I did not realize there were issues with using elequoence on my  computer
with other screen readers! Especially since I paid so much for the
synthesizer and the screen reader. Never saw any licensing text for
eloquence.  I disagree that it is illegal to use elequoence software on a
computer which is also running jaws or some other software that it is
bundled with. Now I am not a lawyer, but software is generally controled by the number of computers not the software you can use with it... is this not
correct?  Does anybody have the licensing text for elequoence?
googled eloquence and NVDA and found this link:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
And there was some very clear instructions telling me to copy the files in
some folder called synthdrive or something like that on both my programs
files/nvda folder and the one under appdata/roming/nvda
So then I erased the nVDA.ini file and when i loaded NVDA, I found a choice
of ECI above my other choices under synthesizer.
This post and topic is on audiogames.net. And has not been removed. I have
to assume it is at least a gray area.
NVDA is quite an amazing program and I would figure there should be some
better voices than the one it comes with.  I am most certainly donating to
the NVDA project as I really needed a good portable screen reader and backup for Jaws that did not cost me an arm and a leg. In fact, just a few minutes
a go, I had loaded a program, where NVDA could detect the check boxes for
options and Jaws could not.  I unloaded jaws and loaded NVDA.
NVDA is just fantastic and I truly love the idea of an open source screen
reader.
I am certain that the next time Jaws offers a paid upgrade or trys to get
some money out of me, I will switch to NVDA permanently.
I normally never do this. In fact, I have never done this online. But open
source software for the blind is very critical.  We need to get costs
lowered and help more people get the tools to survive and prosper! If each of us would even just contribute $5 to $50, we could really help people who
are trying to make a difference.
Please help NVDA in any way you can.
There website is: http://www.nvda-project.org/
I will contribute $20 myself.


H.R. Soltani


To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?

I can't really agree with them doing whatever they want since they sold
it. Look at jaws; many can't afford the prices, and there would be a lot
less cracks and a lot more people paying if they had a better business
moddle that didn't include scruing their customers out of lots of money.
I would not mind at all paying $5,$20 etc for eloquence and the right to
use it with NVDA, but the whole "you just can't use it," is pathetic.
On 11/21/2010 10:22 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
Basically, he doesn't like the fact that eloquence is sold with the
right to be used only by the application it is bundled with. He things
nuance doesnt loose anything if other applications are allowed to use
eloquence as well.
I personally don't agree and think any company is allowed to sell its
software with any license they want.

AS for legal eloquence with nvda, the only option I know about is
penvda, a u3 usb stick with nvda on it, wihch costs around 100 euros,
way above $100.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
new voice?


I have no idea what black ares said in his messsage. From what I
gather, something about 5 dollars... Is there a paid version of
eloquence? I know there's voxen for *nix is $5. I'd be willing to pay
the same to be able to use it with NVDA on windows.
On 11/20/2010 9:43 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
It's quite simple, in my view.
Eci's license says that eci can be used only with the application it
is distributed with. Period.
When those guys from NVDA  did what you said, i.e. they made an nvda
eci driver without embedding eci itself, they were contacted by IBM,
makers of home page reader, an app which had eloquence in it. IBM
requested NVAccess to remove the driver, and so they did.
If IBM was right or not, I can't say. I personally believe that they
were, I think IBM read carefully the license before contacting
NVAccess.
The license may be different for jaws, but I don't think that
either. It seems eloquence is sold to a developer and only that
developer has the right to use the synth.
----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares"
<matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
new voice?


So let talk about the case:
I bought Jaws.
Jaws came with elocuence.
I Make a software that interfaces with eci and speaks trough that
interface.
My program has no eci or elocuence in it.
It simply uses what is on the computer.
If the user has let say jaws, ok it has elocuence so my software
speaks.
If the user has not jaws, there is no ECI  and that is, my software
can not speak using eci.
So the one who sells Jaws with elocuence is not afected, because,
to use my software with elocuence, the user must have or buy
elocuence separately so pay that money.
Where is the problem here?
I don't see where the elocuence team loose!
So back to your example, if using your software needs that game to
be installed so to be boght from me, there is no reason to be un
happy.
The model you describe here is that, if I buy jaws with elocuence I
pay 5 dolar for elocuence
But if I wana use elocuence in my application I must pay Elocuence
another 5 dolar, so I pay twice for same code.
I know that they don't sell code, but rights to use the code and
that is what I don't like.



----- Original Message ----- From: "Trouble"
<trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
new voice?


The reason its illegal, is because the programmer of the software.
Put code in that software to allow its use with another piece of
software., and they paid for that right. now just because that
software comes with another chunk of software. Does not give you
the right to use it, because you didn't pay for it. To keep that
software billable. The program uses special code that lets what
ever software that wants to use it the right, but has to be paid.
Its all about money and that chunk of software is not free.
if you wrote a score keeper for a friends game say football. Now
it works great and he gave you $10. Now both are happy and you
have the thought that you can get $10 for that code. now lets say
me and a few other programmers take that code. use it in our own
games and sell those games. now wouldn't you feel like you get
your $10 too? When we give you nothing and act like the code was
free, because it came with another game?

At 08:57 AM 11/20/2010, you wrote:
I don't understand why, If I have a legal copy of eci, together
with jaws,
I am not allowed to use it from another screen reader If I have
the possibility.
So I write the program, I don't embed any kind of synth in it,
but I search on the target machine what synths are there and I
try to use one of them
I don't understand why this is ilegal...

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Moisei"
<vortex37@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
NVDA new voice?


   Here's what the NVDA devs have to say about the subject:
http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDAAndEloquenceSituation
So, using eci api from another program if you don't distribute a
licensed
version of eloquence with it is illegal, it seems. It doesn't
matter that
the specs are freely available on the web.
Btw, that NVDA driver for eloquence really exists, but it is
illegal, so it
is not supported by the developers.
----- Original Message ----- From: "QuentinC"
<quentinc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:31 AM
Subject: Re: NVDA new voice?


I've also heard whispers of an eloquence thing floating around
for it,
but I'm not sure if that's legal or if someone can give it to you.

I read somewhere that using eloquence outside of jaws or talks was
actually illegal. I don't know if it is really true. That point
should
really be clarified, perhaps in a separate thread, but the
topic is
interesting.

Additionnal question: if eloquence is already installed on a
system, it's
quite easy to open the DLL and start to use the functions.
Documentation
on this DLL is even available on the web. Is that illegal ?

I really wish that eloquence  would be easily available in NVDA,
definitely legally. Because espeak is... how to say... terrific.

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trouble
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Thanks,
Ty

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Thanks,
Ty

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