RE: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?

  • From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:08:40 -0400

Correct ... It is not byte compliant , per say, and it's also j2me really, not 
j2se ... Furthermore, this is what the entire Oracle
law suit is about.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay Macarty
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 6:00 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?

But my understanding was that the Android JVM is somewhat different from the 
standard JVM one might find on another platform. I
guess the question is if it is different enough to not just be another port of 
the Sun/Oracle JVM.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Hall" <mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?


> Well, Oracle bought Sun Micro Systems, so they bought Java along with 
> everything else owned by Sun. Now, since Android is written in Java 
> and runs atop a virtual machine, Oracle is trying to say that they are 
> entitled to some of the money made by Android since it is written in a 
> language Oracle now owns.
>
> On 8/18/10, katherine Moss <plymouthroamer285@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Holy moly!  What's going on there?  What's Oracle suing Google for?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don 
>> Marang
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 2:38 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is all Android app development based on Google's version of Java?  
>> Are there reasonable resources I can point developers to for Android 
>> accessibility implementation?  As a potential user / tinkerer, I 
>> would like to know as well and hopefully be in a better position to 
>> provide positive feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will the threatened Oracle lawsuit of Google over Java damage 
>> Android's success?  Will it destroy inovation and Open Source if they win?
>>
>> Don Marang
>>
>>
>>
>> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of 
>> any real substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure 
>> that I am working on things that matter.
>> Dean Kamen
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Ken Perry <mailto:whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 7:52 PM
>>
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Subject: RE: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is sort of what Android is doing even if they have not went far 
>> enough yet.  They have an accessible event that is thrown by all 
>> controls excepting static and some other problems but at any rate if 
>> you use basic controls you get the accessible events if however you 
>> want to make a custom action you can also throw accessible events 
>> that the screen readers like talk back will catch and speak or the 
>> accessibility tools like kick back and sound back can catch and do 
>> something with.  So its part developer putting in special access and 
>> part developer using the controls that are already accessible.
>> The unfortunate problem is what you get is only part accessible in 
>> most cases.  I am not saying Android is not accessible I am saying 
>> what Android is once again proving is if you leave it up to the 
>> developer at all us as developers are too lazy to do it.  Take me for 
>> example if I as a blind coder wrote a scrabble game I would not think 
>> of special cases for high resolution graphic cards to have spinning 
>> tiles or something to make the game more interesting for a sited 
>> player.  I would be shooting for my target audience.
>> The reverse is even worse not only are sighted programmers used to 
>> rapid development and anything that slows them down out, but they 
>> wouldn't know what we need to have sent to make something accessible 
>> unless we point it out.  Here is an example under the Android 
>> platform.  The default media player has very accessible artist and 
>> song lists. But when you open them they say nothing for example When 
>> you open the media layer you are on a tab screen and when you arrow 
>> left and right it says artist albums and songs.
>> If you click on artist nothing happens or at least as a blind person 
>> hears it nothing at all happens.  If however you are sighted you will 
>> notice that a whole list below opens up sort of like a tree but it's 
>> more like an expanded list.  If you don't know what you're doing and 
>> you click on it again because you thought nothing happened it would 
>> close the list.  Now a sighted coder wouldn't know this is a problem 
>> and the current access frame work doesn't take this into account.  
>> What should have happened is a open event should have been thrown 
>> even though focus didn't change there should have been a 
>> notification.  Well it would have cost maybe 10 lines a code to make 
>> this work but those lines are not easy to find and if you don't know 
>> it needs to be there well you're not going to go looking in the 
>> View.java class and the accessible_inf_event.java class to figure out 
>> how it works because you don't know you need to.
>>
>>
>>
>> So how do we fix this?  My answer is better thought out tool kits. 
>> Once the developers can just use and it will be accessible.  If they 
>> make accustom control then don't do something for accessibility it 
>> will error.  Will this ever happen.  My answer is no but shrug I hope 
>> I am wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay 
>> Macarty
>> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 1:29 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?
>>
>>
>>
>> One of the ideas I have been toying with for the java screen reader 
>> (either we4java or jac) is providing a set of runtime annotations 
>> which could be used to enhance an application's accessibility by 
>> allowing the app developer to put in self voicing annotations. There 
>> are differing schools of thought on self voicing. Some say it is good 
>> because the developer knows the app best and where self voicing would 
>> be helpful. On the other hand, putting in self voicing without 
>> providing the user a way of controling it or turning off certain 
>> levels of it, takes away from the user's control over the 
>> accessibility feedback. If we put self voicing annotations into the 
>> java screen reader, a developer could add them in if desired but the 
>> base screen reader code base would still have control and could 
>> provide a common mechanism for allowing the user to adjust the self 
>> voicing feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Ken Perry <mailto:whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 5:20 PM
>>
>> Subject: RE: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with Chris H.'s answer but I want to point out it's our fault 
>> it's not already accessible.  I wrote a simple talking java screen 
>> reader that did very little but it made it so I could use  Open 
>> Office. Crappily but the buttons talked and all and I did this in 
>> like 200 lines of code.  I know that code got passed around and I 
>> have since lost my copy but it  can be done by replacing the access 
>> bridge with self voicing code.  It just takes someone actually doing 
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am interested to see where Open Office goes now that it is Oricals.  
>> I am worried about all Java stuff now that Orical is trying to Sew 
>> Google into stopping Android.  It's a crazy world.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels 
>> Roos
>> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 3:30 AM
>> To: programmingblind
>> Subject: Why isn't Open Office on Windows Accessible?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Sorry if this question has been raised before and dealt with. Does 
>> anyone know exactly why the Windows version of Open Office is only 
>> partly accessible with a screen reader, while the Linux version is 
>> streets ahead?
>> Because Open Office is written in Java I assume the code base is 98% 
>> identical across platforms. Is the problem mainly with the JAB (Java 
>> Access
>> Bridge) or with the screen readers themselves? Could the JAB not be 
>> open sourced so it can be updated to bridge Java, MSAA, UIA and any 
>> other access middle ware standard?
>>
>> NVDA works the best with Open Office, so I would assume it makes the 
>> best use of the JAB. Is there other Java to access technology middle 
>> ware in common use today?
>>
>> I can remember a really long thread that in part had some info on 
>> Java accessibility, but I just can't justify going through all that 
>> to possibly find out more.
>>
>> Keep well
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kerneels Roos
>> Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>> Skype: cornelis.roos
>>
>> The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
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