RE: Web User Verification Screens
- From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:09:27 -0400
Good luck with that. All the other problems you stated are relatively easy.
They are called engineering problems. The captia problem
is a theoretical one, it's the Touring test, pure and simple.
It's kind of like saying ... If we can make machines that can talk to outer
space, roam Mars, and cook our food in under two
minutes, why can't we prove the Reman Zeta hypothesis?
Take care,
Sina
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:15 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Web User Verification Screens
Hello,
If we can develop cars drivable by the blind, put men on the moon for God
sakes we should be able to find ways to make captcha
data available while hiding it from spam bots. Furthermore I'd like to see
solid research on the subject to see how many of this
spam bot crap is real and how much is myth! I would strongly urge you to
develop a captcha solving solution that works for those
with limited hearing or are deaf-blind and quit making excuses of why it's
impossible to do so. The next thing I wish to hear from
you is how you achieved this and not why it can't be done. Otherwise you picked
a fight with the wrong hearing-impaired user. Now
get it done!
Peter Donahue
From: "E.J. Zufelt" <lists@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Web User Verification Screens
Good morning Peter,
This is not as easy as it may seem.
The purpose of these scripts is to deter automated systems from being able to
successfully pass the challenge. embedding
information about the solution to the challenge within the page is not a
successful means of ensuring that automated systems cannot
pass the challenge.
There are some things that can be attempted.
Question / answer challenges. Although these are not really a CAPTCHA, since
they are not "completely automated", they can be
solved more easily by some users than standard visual / audio challenges. I
have some anecdotal data that shows that these styles
of CAPTCHA are more easily solved by automated systems than visual and audio
CAPTCHAs.
Another method is to provide a contact link where users can request to have
their accounts exempt from the challenge. This as well
can be problematic.
For starters this is not a real time solution to the problem, users have to
wait to receive a response, sould they ever receive one
at all. Secondly, this may not be possible on sites where users are not
authenticated with credentials, such as the CAPTCHAs
required on some sites to expose e-mail address or to send contact forms.
This is a complicated problem with non-trivial solutions. I think that the
most important, by far, factor to consider when
contacting an organization about the CAPTCHA on their site is to allow them to
know that you fully recognize their need to have some
form of automated verification system to protect their site and other users.
This means that the conversation will start from a
position of respect.
HTH,
Everett Zufelt
http://zufelt.ca
Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt
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http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
On 2010-08-17, at 10:56 AM, Peter Donahue wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Also include the ability to make this information available to screen
> readers while hiding it from spam bots. There are people being left behind
> such as the deaf-blind. Audio captchas won't work if you cannot hear them.
> This population is tired of being left out of Web accessibility.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Ladis" <tom@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:48 AM
> Subject: Web User Verification Screens
>
>
> Hello all. I have been running into more and more of the web based
> verification screens that ask me to read a bunch of scrambled text, which
> I
> usually cannot. Sometimes they offer a "speak it out loud" link, but that
> often gets stepped on by JAWS announcing the popup. There are third party
> solutions to the problem, but they require that the user knows about them
> and that they work correctly with their browser.
>
> Does anyone have any ideas for a good replacement for the screen that
> would:
>
> 1. Present the scrambled text
>
> 2. Speak it out loud without a popup
>
> 3. Be portable across the many platforms
>
> ?4. Be a simple replacement to existing solutions
>
>
>
> I feel that it would be a huge advantage to have all of the necessary
> features built into an accessible control that I could present to some of
> the major web sites for their use, to replace the mess that is spreading
> across the web with the many solutions which all have problems.
>
>
>
> Maybe something like a Macromedia Flash control but accessible and
> portable.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Ladis a
>
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