Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind

I think that the time needed for hearing "button" is not longer than the time needed to hear a beep, but it is more clear what it refers to than a beep.


The comparison with how the sighted associated those form elements is not valid in my opinion. Why?

A sighted person can associate a raised form button with a real button because a real button is usually raised. But a blind person cannot naturally associate a real button with a certain beep, because the buttons usually don't beep, but if they will hear that element is a "button", it would be very clear.

I've seen you've used MathML in your html document, but can you tell us how can we read those math formulas? Internet Explorer doesn't read them right for sure.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew2007" <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind


This method of generating audio icons is interesting. It does appear to hold the potential of speeding up computing, but it might have a steep learning curve as the new user will have to take lots of time out to learn the sounds then create the mental associations with the sound and the intended action. In other words, there is a possibility of new users giving up on it as they might deem it much more difficult to use than the more common methods of computing. That is, it will be easier for them to know what to do with an audio message telling them "Ok," than an audio message telling them "beep beep." Now that I think of it, if you attach piano sounds to the audio-icons you might end up composing quite a musical piece and not even know it.

Then again there is the noise factor as all these strange sounds might annoy or at the very least distract others in the vicinity.

I do believe that your audio-icons do have great potential in that they can be of great use to power users that only need that tiny hint of reassurance they're moving along and clicking what they intend to click.

"Oh wait," I just thought of something, doesn't this type of computing already exist to some extent within the Jaws speech and sounds manager?

Regardless, I would continue exploring this interaction channel as it might ultimately yield lots of efficiency for the proficient blind computer user.

Thanks,
Matthew
---- Original Message ----- From: "dusty bray" <dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: Web Page Editor for the Blind



Yeah, you're definitely right, inthane-- it should have an option to turn off the sounds, but this version is severely lacking in many, many ways right now. i just wanted to give everyone an idea of how this system works.

And honestly, i think if i gave that option initially, then everyone would just turn it off and not actually try to make it work smile. i anticipate this being somewhat of a learning curve because the user has to build mental connections between a sound and its meaning. In the same way, users had difficulty transitioning from command line to Windows based operating systems because the graphical symbols were totally unfamiliar at first. But today, there exists a universally recognized set of graphics for identifying objects, and these graphics allow sighted users to work more efficiently now. i see an opportunity to use background noises for the same purpose. You could fit a lot of useful information in that empty space.

Of course, Windows has already tried to incorporate sounds into the interface, but these sounds were used very inappropriately. Instead of associating objects with sounds, they associated actions with sounds, which gives information after the fact. So even as i use this new system, i'm having to consciously reprogram myself not to think of these sounds as actions but as markers for object types.

But i do want to know if people find this particular set of sounds overbearing. Should i adjust the volumes? Can you hear the voice clearly over the sounds?

Also, did you ever recieve my original message?? That's really strange. It's still programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, right?

Ok, well definitely give me your oppinion if you get a chance to use the software. Thanks,

dusty.......




From: inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:23:42 -0700

interesting, I got your reply to Dusty's message, but haven't received the
original even yet, hmmmmm!

I haven't tried your ap yet Dusty, but it would be nice if you could reverse
things, in other words, turn off the added sounds, and return it to full
speaking of the items, since I don't do well with sounds, maybe a check box
in an options menu/dialog for changing it, giving the user the choice?

regards,
inthane
? For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links
to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
? to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "John covici" <covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:49 PM
Subject: Web Page Editor for the Blind


>I wonder if it would work with hardware speech at all since the speech
> and the sound may get out of sync?  Ever test this?
>
> on Wednesday 10/10/2007 dusty bray(dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx) wrote
> >
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the Web page editor that
> > i$,1rym starting and give some feedback.
> >
> > i$,1rym incorporating some cool features into this program that i > > hope
> > will allow blind users to easily create content-rich Web pages.
> > i$,1rym especially excited about the mathematical expression > > editor.
> > And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of the other surprises i$,1ryve
> > added.
> >
> > This application also introduces a new concept for quickly
> > differentiating between controls in the editor$,1rys interface. In
> > applications designed for sighted users, components are visually
> > distinct: buttons appear raised, text boxes appear inset, and each > > item > > differs in some way that suggests its intended function. Page > > Designer
> > achieves this effect auditorily. The application plays programmatic
> > sounds in parallel with voice output to quickly identify both an
> > object$,1rys type and its value. So rather than speaking "OK > > button",
> > the editor speaks "OK" and plays a popping sound at the same moment,
> > effectively saving half the number of syllables. Textboxes are
> > associated with a tapping sound; picture boxes are accompanied by > > the
> > sound of a camera shutter; the volume of a radio button$,1rys sound
> > varies depending its selection state.
> >
> > Visit this link to download the application:
> > http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip
> > The executable is named here-i-am_page-designer.
> >
> > Please have patience with it.  This is only a beta version of the
> > program. Also, the interface is very different and takes some > > getting
> > used to.
> >
> > i hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve changed the
> > navigation keys to ensure my program doesn$,1ryt conflict. As > > before, > > the navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy with parent > > nodes
> > corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and child nodes
> > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see more details of > > an
> > object, press spacebar. If at any point you becomes lost, pressing
> > Escape will move the selection up one level of abstraction, > > revealing a
> > "bigger picture".
> >
> > Unfortunately, this program is still far from the screen reader i
> > envision. This is just a self-voicing application, and the objects > > do
> > not correspond to actual objects on the screen, so it probably lacks
> > much of the functionality to which you may be accustomed. But i > > feel
> > like i$,1rym slowly getting closer.
> >
> > Hope you enjoy it,
> >
> > dusty.......
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger > > Caf,Ai.
> > Stop by today.
> > 
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline<html>
> > <head>
> > <style>
> > .hmmessage P
> > {
> > margin:0px;
> > padding:0px
> > }
> > body.hmmessage
> > {
> > FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> > FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
> > }
> > </style>
> > </head>
> > <body class='hmmessage'>
> > Hi everybody,<br><br>i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the Web
> > page editor that i$,1rym starting and give some
> > feedback.<br><br>i$,1rym incorporating some cool features into this
> > program that i hope will allow blind users to easily create > > content-rich
> > Web pages.&nbsp; i$,1rym especially excited about the mathematical
> > expression editor.&nbsp; And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of the
> > other surprises i$,1ryve added.<br><br>This application also
> > introduces a new concept for quickly differentiating between > > controls in
> > the editor$,1rys interface. In applications designed for sighted
> > users, components are visually distinct: buttons appear raised, text
> > boxes appear inset, and each item differs in some way that suggests > > its > > intended function. Page Designer achieves this effect auditorily. > > The > > application plays programmatic sounds in parallel with voice output > > to
> > quickly identify both an object$,1rys type and its value. So rather
> > than speaking "OK button", the editor speaks "OK" and plays a > > popping
> > sound at the same moment, effectively saving half the number of
> > syllables. Textboxes are associated with a tapping sound; picture > > boxes > > are accompanied by the sound of a camera shutter; the volume of a > > radio > > button$,1rys sound varies depending its selection > > state.<br><br>Visit
> > this link to download the application:&nbsp;
> > 
http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip<br>The
> > executable is named here-i-am_page-designer.<br><br>Please have > > patience > > with it.&nbsp; This is only a beta version of the program.&nbsp; > > Also, > > the interface is very different and takes some getting used > > to.<br><br>i > > hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve changed the > > navigation > > keys to ensure my program doesn$,1ryt conflict.&nbsp; As before, > > the
> > navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy with parent nodes
> > corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and child nodes
> > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see more details of > > an
> > object, press spacebar. If at any point you becomes lost, pressing
> > Escape will move the selection up one level of abstraction, > > revealing a > > "bigger picture".<br><br>Unfortunately, this program is still far > > from
> > the screen reader i envision.&nbsp; This is just a self-voicing
> > application, and the objects do not correspond to actual objects on > > the > > screen, so it probably lacks much of the functionality to which you > > may
> > be accustomed.&nbsp; But i feel like i$,1rym slowly getting
> > closer.<br><br>Hope you enjoy it,<br><br>dusty.......<br><br><br > > /><hr
> > />Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger
> > Caf,Ai. <a
> > 
href='http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline'
> > target='_new'>Stop by today!</a></body>
> > </html>
> -- > Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
>
>         John Covici
>         covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'カ翰学ョf渇旛jxハ恭・xjリカ淌 ュ迥ヒ「ク・嘯カ・nX
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