I'll try that. Google kept directing me to the same 2010 site every time I tried. It was frustrating. Thank you for posting the link. Lots of tutorials I've encoutnered reference vs 2008 and hardly any of them use 2010. Alex m On 7/6/10, Øyvind Lode <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Hi Alex, all: > You can indeed download VS 2008 Express. > All editions is still available here: > Press t twice to move to the table containing the files. > Select your desired version and hit enter on the download button. > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=f3fb > b04e-92c2-4701-b4ba-92e26e408569 > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Midence > Sent: 6. juli 2010 18:59 > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: In regards to my giving up on programming? > > You can't get visual studio 2008 any more. I tried. They've come out > with 2010 now and I can't find a download link to a 2008 version. > 2010, I found out this weekend, has a bug which aMS claims to have > fixed but doesn't seem to have in truth. It uses uia (user interface > automation) and apparently knows when you are using ascreen reader. > Thing is, it crashes on you when this is activated. Something to do > with intelisense. There's a patch you can download for it but, mine > said the error didn't apply. Go figure. Crashed like crazy till I > told it not to automate visual settings (deactivated uia). Worked > without crashing then but navigation with Jaws was a pain. So if > anyone is going to buy the professional version of 2010 or will > upgrade, "caviat emptor!" Buyer beware. > > Alex m > > > On 7/5/10, Dave <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Thanks for posting that Jamal. >> >> I think a better title for the article would have been "Does Visual >> Studio and .Net Rot the Mind?". I, personally, love .Net + Visual >> studio as you can write a Windows app at break neck speed and the >> process of building/running is lightning fast. >> >> However, for new comers, I can see why Petzold seemed so hesitant to >> write a guide to winforms as opposed to full on development. I can >> see how easy it would have been to drag a few controls around and even >> adding a few event handlers to an app would have yielded a sense of >> accomplishment, but if anything ever went wrong or if I was actually >> serious about doing professional development that would have been a >> hinderence. It's somewhat revealing to see that even Microsoft hasn't >> adopted .Net for its serious revenue generating applications (Office, >> IE, Windows, etc.). For that matter, most screen readers use >> win32/C++/MFC/COM. .Net allows programmers to remain oblivious of >> core Windows concepts as it does all of the heavy lifting, so that >> when things go wrong, you have no idea what happened or even where to >> start looking. It also skirts around the pure joy of designing or >> seeing core algorithms implemented. >> >> Having recently been coding mostly in C++/StL/COM, I can appreciate >> how much work it takes to get low-level details right especially with >> a big project; but with those struggles comes greater control, >> performance, and cross-platform possibilities. Now, if I write a .Net >> app, I'm conscious of what exactly occurs when I assign object >> references or how much boxing/unboxing costs or using StringBuilder, >> etc. >> >> This isn't to say .Net is "bad", but for someone who wants the full >> story on Windows development and not a watered down version more apt >> for hobbiest, win32/C would be a great jumping off point as .Net >> serves mostly as a wrapper for those legacy technologies (with the >> noteable exception of WPF which is based on DirectX). >> >> On 7/5/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> This reminds me of an article: >>> >>> Does Visual Studio Rot the Mind? >>> Ruminations on the Psychology and Aesthetics of Coding >>> By Charles Petzold >>> >>> http://www.charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html >>> >>> Jamal >>> >>> >>> On 7/2/2010 7:49 PM, Jes wrote: >>>> Ken wrote: >>>> "You can get up and running much faster on a language like, python, or > c >>>> and >>>> actually see results. Results is what matters when you start out >>>> coding"... >>>> >>>> I couldn't agree more with that. The IDE is a lazy man's way to begin to >>>> program. To me, any text book or college material which gives you a >>>> prepackaged formula, claiming to teach you something isn't really doing >>>> you any good and shouldn't even be used by the college. As an example, >>>> the >>>> book I am using is "An Introduction to Programming with C plus plus, by >>>> Diane Zak." Thank goodness they used programming, not coding. They only >>>> show you the code you need to copy and paste into your IDE, which, in >>>> this >>>> case, is Visual Studio. I like the way the book introduces new concepts >>>> of >>>> the C plus plus language to you, but they fail to really get down into >>>> the >>>> dirt with all of it. For example, they tell you what an algorithm is, > and >>>> they tell you the various procedures to start writing a program; 1, >>>> analyzing a problem, 2, planning an algorithm, 3, desk-checking your >>>> algorithm, etc. Basically, it just feels like I'm copying and pasting in >>>> a >>>> bunch of code, into an IDE so I can pass a c >>> ourse. Furthermore, when we finally have no errors in the code, the .exe >>> opens up in a command prompt. They don't even help us build real genuine >>> Windows apps, it's all console applications. I've always associated C > plus >>> plus with genuine Windows gui application development. What's wrong with >>> this picture? >>>> Jes, the proud man. >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind