Ah but for the ones that do, why not point them in the right direction. The ones that do care, and do try to make their software accessible, instead of giving a list of what should be done, let them try it for themselves. Don't know maybe I am wrong but if a sighted person is interested in making an accessible bit of software they should do everything they can. It is only meant as a bit of advice to the person interested in making that code editor. The screen reader users you will encounter for that particular project will of course be a bit more experienced with the computer than your average user, but it may be a good practice for future projects to understand how to operate the computer using a screen reader. Yeah it is not easy, yeah it is annoying and hard to understand and sit and listen to the computer talk but I feel it is essential in understanding how a blind person interacts with the computer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 2:43 PM Subject: Re: The top three big problems
Yes that's true, but unfortunately most of the sighted programmers don't care to create accessible software...Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "John Greer" <jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: Re: The top three big problemsI still say the programmer that is doing the software, sighted or not should download and use his or her software with an actual screen reader. The only true way to understand how to program for accessibility is to use a screen reader with the product. A mound of definable hotkeys are all fine and good but if the control the hotkey points to doesn't give usable vocal feedback then the hotkey is useless. If the plan is to put some sort of intellisense into the product then I feel the programmer should, at design time, use the product with Jaws, Window Eyes etc. and see how closely the vocal feedback is to what is visually on the screen. He or she should tab to each of the controls to see if the control can be accessed using a screen reader, and make sure the control is labeled in a way the screen reader can actually read what it is. I can guarantee that there are little quirks with screen readers that a manual on MSAA does not cover. So again, I suggest that any sighted programmer looking to make software for the blind, download and use a screen reader with their software. If the sighted programmers are saying to themselves, "But I don't know how to use a screen reader". I say to them neither do 80 percent of your screen reader users, so you have to make access to the controls as simple as you can for that 80 percent. Also many sighted programmers may say but the voice just annoys me, and I say welcome to the club but it is how we do it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: The top three big problemsAnd I can also say that I don't like some of the key combinations in VS.net at all. I never liked that combined combinations like alt+Q,S, or Control+Q,S... I don't remember.It would have been more simple to be control+Shift+S, or alt+Shift+S, or a combination which is more clear.For example what happends if I press Control+Q but then I want to not press it anymore? I don't know what will happen if I will press another key because it might do some bad things. I also don't know if that alt+Q is remembered or it is forgot if pressing another key than S or other valid key.I don't know why VS.net uses those strange hotkeys. If there are too many hotkeys and that's why, than this is bad. There shouldn't be too many hotkeys defined by default, because they might cause conflicts with the screen reader's hotkeys, or anyway, the user won't remember them all, so they will have no value.Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: The top three big problemsI suppose that copying the keyboard model of either Visual Studio orEclipse makes sense because of the popularity of those environments. In the case of VS at least, however, I wish to express the opinion that the keyboard assignments are not particularly intuitive or easy to remember.The base letter of a key combination is often not the initial letter of the associated command. Many commands require chorded sequences of hot keys, sometimes where the second one also requires the Control modifier and sometimes where it does not. Jamal __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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