Ok do not forget this list is an international thing and so people might not have english as its main or firtst language. I wanted to say move instead but everybody should understand tthis by context. Marlon 2007/11/29, Matthew2007 <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > Thanks for the psychedelic support. "...walking cars?" > > Matthew > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:24 AM > Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner > > > > Hello folks, > > Well it is getting ridiculous. The goal of this list is discussing > > programming and I don't think that discussing topics as television or > > what a blind is teached or not will help here. > > The question is: to plan a software you don't need sight. To plan a > > land hoover which will walk in the moon you don't need sight. Sure you > > will need sightedd folks near you to build the thing, but you can > > perfectly plan it. Cars do walk, do have controls that if pressed will > > make it walk or turn or stop or anything else. Cars aren't a visual > > thing, they're mechanical and their goal is walking. A visual design > > is visual, only this. It works visually, is built on top of visual > > concepts, and have a pure visual result. So I would be able, if I > > wanted, to plan a car and make sure he walks. But I won't be able to > > intirely plan a visual interface and I will never be able to test it > > myself. Got the thing? I hope you do. > > I don't agree all with Mateu and Teddy, in fact I do think blind > > people can do a lot of things, because these don't depend on a pure > > visual concept ... but a blind can not have autonomy or all necessary > > habilities to work lonely in something which evolves pure visual > > concepts!! In fact that's why a blind can't drive: because this > > deppends purely on a visual hability. Again, I am sure a blind can do > > most part of stuff in visual designing, but he / she would always > > depend on other folks to test and to some extent he / she will not be > > able to do what a sighted could. Blinds can compet in everything which > > evolves use of common resources, those ones that sighted and blind can > > have access. But blinds won't be as good as sighted in mathers where > > visual stuff is evolved because blinds simply have no way of achieving > > pure visual things, and this can not be arged. > > Marlon > > > > 2007/11/29, Matthew2007 <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>: > >> Wow, this message is an example of complete idiocy. > >> > >> "The first land rover that landed on the moon. Was designed and built by > >> a > >> total blind guy at NASA." > >> Firstly, name him and we'll look this person up. Secondly, do you mean to > >> tell me he himself without the aid of anyone else designed and built > >> this? > >> He must have been incredibly independently rich. > >> > >> As for your "blind people can do anything mindset," jump in your car and > >> drive on down to the beach where you can sign up for the fantasy land 10K > >> marathon. Register and run the marathon without any type of sighted > >> assistance. When you're finished with that, go to the store and buy some > >> milk, a bag of cheetos, and refill your antipsychotic medication without > >> help. then jump on a bicycle and find your way to your home without any > >> sighted assistance. Let me place you in the center of a field and place > >> $1 > >> million at any random location on the field, and if you can find and grab > >> the money within 1 hour, you can keep the cash. I'm going to trip you up > >> and > >> place the money right behind you so that when you step forward you'll > >> begin > >> walking therefore making it impossible for you to find the cash. Do all > >> these simple things without sighted help and then I will believe you can > >> do > >> anything. > >> > >> I'm beginning to notice a pattern in the mindset of those who have lost > >> or > >> never had sight as children in comparison to those who have lost their > >> eyesight later in life. The younger individuals are pretty much repeating > >> the platitudes that have been etched into their brains from a young age. > >> > >> Matthew > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:43 AM > >> Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner > >> > >> > >> > Boy lets just throw you a self pity party! > >> > Being blind you work with what you have and make everything around you > >> > adapt to you or you to it. > >> > The only things I can't do blind is read a book with my eyes, use a > >> > scanner for that job, and thats about all I can see a blind person > >> > can't > >> > really do. > >> > If you think that everyone is limited by the sight only you have. Get > >> > real, not all countries are as ignorant with the disabled and learning. > >> > There are many blind in jobs we don't hear about, because they are not > >> > on > >> > the web or want any part of it. but if you still think blind people > >> > can't > >> > do what sighted people can just think on this thought. > >> > The first land rover that landed on the moon. Was designed and built by > >> > a > >> > total blind guy at NASA. pretty good for being blind when accessible > >> > software wasn't even thought of! > >> > > >> > At 01:54 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: > >> >>CSS doesn't help you to see what's in a picture, what colors it uses, > >> >>or > >> >>how to align a form in an image with the surrounding text, or with > >> >>another > >> >>image. > >> >> > >> >>You talked about talent of others versus the miss of talent of others. > >> >>Shame! > >> >>When you do that, you should tell us the address of that web page that > >> >>shown the "talent", and not try to tell us that a blind person can do > >> >>what > >> >>a sighted cannot do, because he could have talent. > >> >> > >> >>A musician that became deaf, can compose a melody if he heard before > >> >>and > >> >>if the knows very well how the instruments sound, but I don't think > >> >>that > >> >>musician could compose the same for some instruments that he never > >> >>heard > >> >>how they sound. > >> >>In the world of design, everything's new for every page. Nothing's the > >> >>same. The colors, the images, the text, the layout of the pages, the > >> >>style > >> >>that should be shown, so each combination is a new one. > >> >> > >> >>(I don't consider "design made by a dlind" the copying and pasting the > >> >>html and css elements in a text editor after they were made by others, > >> >>or > >> >>after their layout was verified by other sighted users). > >> >> > >> >>And after so many discussions after this, I still can't see a single > >> >>web > >> >>page made by a "talented" blind web designer. > >> >> > >> >>Octavian > >> >> > >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:59 PM > >> >>Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>>Hi, > >> >>>None of this stuff was done in a vacuum. There were specifications > >> >>>that > >> >>>guided Jeff as he built the interface. > >> >>> > >> >>>I may be wrong, but I think sometimes people build software for others > >> >>>to > >> >>>use. It may also be that some people are talented at things other > >> >>>people > >> >>>are not. That may possibly mean that there could possibly be sighted > >> >>>programmers who are not good designers of GUI's. It may also be that > >> >>>some > >> >>>people who are blind may be able to imagine a layout well enough to be > >> >>>able > >> >>>to build one. Laying out web GUI's is nothing more than a matter of > >> >>>simple > >> >>>math using whole numbers and percentages. If you have a good > >> >>>understanding > >> >>>of how the CSS box model works, Web is one of the places where you > >> >>>have a > >> >>>good chance to succeed because it uses pure text rather than mouse > >> >>>movements. > >> >>> > >> >>>I'll make sure I open my mind in another forum. > >> >>> > >> >>>Each of us lives in everyone else's world. > >> >>> > >> >>>Thanks. > >> >>> > >> >>>Jim > >> >>> > >> >>>James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc., > >> >>>james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810 > >> >>> > >> >>>"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change > >> >>>the > >> >>>world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> "Octavian > >> >>> Rasnita" > >> >>> <orasnita@xxxxxxx > >> >>> To > >> >>> om> programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> >>> Sent by: > >> >>> cc > >> >>> programmingblind- > >> >>> bounce@freelists. > >> >>> Subject > >> >>> org Re: Team Excellence Award > >> >>> Winner > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> 11/28/2007 10:57 > >> >>> AM > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Please respond to > >> >>> programmingblind@ > >> >>> freelists.org > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>In my country there is a very well known yearly contest named > >> >>>Internetics. > >> >>>Well, most of the sites that get awards in that contest, are horrible > >> >>>from > >> >>>the point of view of the blind. So a contest only doesn't mean > >> >>>anything. > >> >>> > >> >>>Please tell us where can we see the web page made by that blind guy, > >> >>>and > >> >>>I > >> >>>will tell you if a blind person can do it without sighted help. > >> >>>I've seen many messages on this list telling how cool web pages can a > >> >>>blind > >> >>> > >> >>>do, with with no single example. > >> >>> > >> >>>Octavian > >> >>> > >> >>>----- Original Message ----- > >> >>>From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:42 PM > >> >>>Subject: Team Excellence Award Winner > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Hi All, > >> >>>>Where I consult, one of our fellow listers was on a team who won a > >> >>>>very > >> >>>>prestigious award. The team developed a highly visible web > >> >>>>application. > >> >>>>Jeff Fidler designed and coded the GUI interface for the site using > >> >>>>HTML, > >> >>>>CSS and Javascript. He used Section 508 and W3C techniques and the > >> >>>sighted > >> >>>>people in the company rave about it. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>I write this to urge anyone who thinks that someone who is blind > >> >>>>cannot > >> >>>>design Web interfaces well to keep on trying. You can do it. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Jim > >> >>>> > >> >>>>James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc., > >> >>>>james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810 > >> >>>> > >> >>>>"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change > >> >>>>the > >> >>>>world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead > >> >>>> > >> >>>>__________ > >> >>>>View the list's information and change your settings at > >> >>>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > >> >>> > >> >>>__________ > >> >>>View the list's information and change your settings at > >> >>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>__________ > >> >>>View the list's information and change your settings at > >> >>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > >> >> > >> >>__________ > >> >>View the list's information and change your settings at > >> >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > >> > > >> > Tim > >> > trouble > >> > "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with > >> > substance." > >> > --Sam Brown > >> > > >> > Blindeudora list owner. > >> > To subscribe or info: //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora > >> > > >> > __________ > >> > View the list's information and change your settings at > >> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > >> > > >> > > >> > __________ NOD32 2693 (20071129) Information __________ > >> > > >> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > >> > http://www.eset.com > >> > > >> > > >> > >> __________ > >> View the list's information and change your settings at > >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just > > stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for > > free." > > Linus Torvalds > > __________ > > View the list's information and change your settings at > > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > > > > __________ NOD32 2693 (20071129) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > -- When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for free." Linus Torvalds __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind