Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
- From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:53:18 -0800
it's still out there both of them are
regards,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links
to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:11 AM
Subject: RE: Team Excellence Award Winner
What ever happened to the off topic list someone set up as a parallel to
this one?
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:34 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
you misread that, which is not unusual for you.
my father had the damaged hand and bad ear, and was a top line computer
systems annalist, the football player was his icon for motivation to try no
matter what, and was missing half his foot, and seeing as he was a kicker,
it did matter a whole lot.
now then since this is turning into another argument about what the blind
can and can't do, I'm making this last correction, and dropping this line so
I don't get myself unplugged by the new list owner/moderator
inthane
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew2007" <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
The football player having lost his ear won't effect his performance on
the field. Losing part of his hand is also not crucial to the job
description is he is not a player who needs to handle the ball. This is
not a good example of a disabled individual beating the odds.
the lawyer, there is absolutely no way, no freakin way I would invest my
money on a blind lawyer unless it is a blindness related matter I'm
confronted with. How can a blind lawyer read original text on contracts?
What if the signatures on documentation were said to have been forged, but
the blind lawyer can't see for himself? It would be pretty expensive to
hire someone to run the assessment if it is obvious the signatures or
other written documentation hasn't been forged. I won't trust OCR for
scanning my mail much less to be used to scan a client's important
documents. How can a blind lawyer read faces during a deposition or during
a trial to know what line of questioning to follow-up on? How can a blind
lawyer dismantle another lawyer's arguments if they involve the
presentation of tables, charts, graphs, pictures, physical demonstrations
and so on? You've obviously never worked with lawyers as they are some of
the most cunning and intelligent individuals you will ever come
across--the good ones that is.
"if you want to know about a blind bio-chemistry major..."
He's still a student and not a blind professional. By the way, depending
on the field he goes into, he mostly will be waiting a long time to be
hired as an employer will obviously see that it will be a bit of a
challenge for the blind chemist to work independently. He could always do
the next best thing for blind individuals who have spent enormous amounts
of time obtaining worthless degrees, he can teach--I did.
You're also using emotion as the main engine driving your arguments, which
is a pretty shaky foundation as support. Regarding who should do the
research, you posted information regarding these blind individuals, I'm
only asking you provide factual evidence and not anecdotal support for
your arguments.
Matthew
----- Original Message -----
From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
you'll have to locate them yourself,
the football player was one of my fathers idols, he having lost part of
his hand and the hearing in one ear in the navy, he used this NFL player
as a example of what can be done, but not being a football person, I
never attempted to remember his name or look him up.
the lawyer you can probably find and get contact information from the
orange county Braille institute since he was a guest speaker there a
couple times while I was attending classes, and I believe is still doing
talks there.
the fencing master I did have an article on, but that was on the computer
that was taken from me and I haven't had time to go find it again, when I
do, I'll post it.
if you want to know about a blind bio-chemistry major in a prominent
university, then contact the disabled student center of UCI (university
California Irvine) and ask them since they were going to refer me to
them when I asked about accomplishing the lab requirements to fulfill a
physics degree
you want the proof, go look things up like I do, don't ask me to do the
running around that you require mat,I ain't your bloody go-for!
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me
at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew2007" <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Name them.
Better yet, send links where we can read about them ourselves rather
than depending on someone else's possibly distorted assessment of the
situation.
Teddy is dead on 100% correct!
Matthew
----- Original Message -----
From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
teddy that is far from what I meant, my computer locked up on my
previous reply, so I'll take my time since I seem to have a habit of
overloading my machine, and I'll get back on this later, if I don't
decide it doesn't warrant a reply when I cool down...
I can tell you about a number of "handicapped" people that have
mastered areas that are thought of as "sighted and fit" only areas as
well or better than most of there "whole and healthy" fellow humans
laters,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit
me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several
programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Oh yes, that's true, and sometimes the screen reader doesn't even show
us the correct colors, and even if it show us that 2 words come one
after another in the same line, it doesn't tell us that maybe the
first is a static word in a iframe element and the other one is a text
written dynamicly by a javascript code, and it might scroll slowly up
or down becoming very confusing for us at a page refresh.
I think we shouldn't fight for beeing what we can't be. Oh yes, there
are handicapped people without a leg that participate in different
sports, showing that they can do more, but we all know that they will
never be equal to a healthy person, no matter how good or bad he is.
And let's not forget that the productivity of the work is also
important. What we can do would have a very low value if we would be
able to do it in a much longer period than a sighted designer.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
which except for rare occasions is not practical Marlon, since we
live in a sighted world, and the majority of folks that we are going
to need to deal with are sighted, I'm sorry that you have no
experience in the visual view of things, this is one area where I
have an advantage.
but... you can't avoid the visual world, it's out there, it's the
majority, and so you might as well learn the tricks for dealing with
it, use the standards and templates when and where you can, and do
your best to adapt.
the best description for trying to convey sight to a person that has
never had it, was spoken by a blind dude that never had sight in his
life,
its the description I use now a days, since I have found myself often
trying to describe visual aspects to those who have never had site.
one thing you should do if you haven't, go to a web site, keep
yourself at the top of the page, and turn on the invisible cursor and
go up and down the page to see what it actually looks like, such as,
the that that instead of the vertical column that jaws presents us
with, that its actually more like a message written in Braille,
including the navigation links which run from left to right across
the page, not in the vertical column that is presented to us.
take care, and good luck,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications,
visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several
programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner
Hello folks,
Well I have never seen ... so I have no a ... let's call it ...
visual
standards so, although I can technically do it very well ... I can
not
plan, like imagine, build ... a nice visual interface, because I
don't
know what it is expected. A quick example is I beleaved gfirmly that
the windows explorer put the folder treeview in the top and the
listview below it, and I couldn't beleave when a guy tould me
naturally that the treeview was in the left and the listview was in
the right!!!!
Similarly, because of the top down aproach most part of screen
readers
use to present web content, I have dificulties to imagine hwat
exactly
sighted people expect to see in a webpage or something like this.
I can plan the components of the interface, but deciding * and
putting
* them in the more "apropriate" place or planning what would happen
if
one changes their screen resolution or diicovering by teory how
browsers would react to it without testing is something very
different.
If I had been sighted (and lost my sight after the modern look and
feel's I perhaps would be totally able to build interfaces based on
the standards of what should be common to folks, but the only thing
I
can do for now is build an interface based on someone's
specifications. And even then I will spend eforts trying to build
something which belongs to a group of situations that I can't
imagine
very well ... and, again, I wouldn't be able to test my own work,
which seen something pretty nasty to any [programmer I know of ...
now
the point is: For sure many blind folks can do gui's, but they will
feel more confortable and be more productive if they're doing
something which has not a visual result as its goal ... which should
be perfectly logical.
Thanks
Marlon
2007/11/28, jaffar <jaffar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi Jim. Excellent news. Congrats Jeff. Just shows what, if you
all will
forgive the pun, application will do for one, not to mention hard
work and
determination, and the willingness to try. Cheers!
----- Original Message -----
From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:42 PM
Subject: Team Excellence Award Winner
>
> Hi All,
> Where I consult, one of our fellow listers was on a team who won
> a very
> prestigious award. The team developed a highly visible web
> application.
> Jeff Fidler designed and coded the GUI interface for the site
> using HTML,
> CSS and Javascript. He used Section 508 and W3C techniques and
> the sighted
> people in the company rave about it.
>
> I write this to urge anyone who thinks that someone who is blind
> cannot
> design Web interfaces well to keep on trying. You can do it.
>
> Jim
>
> James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
> james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
>
> "Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can
> change the
> world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret
> Mead
>
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