Re: Team Excellence Award Winner

  • From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:38:59 +0200

Ok, Thanks John.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Greer" <jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


www.dlee.org/bx/
----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


Can you tell me where I can find those scripts?

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Greer" <jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


It is called having the right tools to perform the job. Nope jaws by itself does not have the tools needed to do many things. But we have some pretty smart Jaws scriptors around. Try a set of scripts called BX, or JFW Technical. They are 2 sets of scripts that if used in the right way can help you do the things you say can't be done. It is simply a matter of finding the tools that can work for you. Even the sighted don't design their websites using eyes as their only tool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


These are only words. But I haven't received the message from that "Trouble" so I'll answer him here.

Dear Trouble, please tell me how to find with Jaws the colors in certain points from an image in a productive way. (So don't tell me to load the image in who knows what inaccessible Image editing program that could tell the code of the color at a certain point, because this would take too much for beeing usable... if there is possible such a thing).

But as I already said, the blind persons who had never seen in their lives, have a thinking limited to what Jaws or other screen readers offer them. Jaws can report the color for the text and the background, but not the colors from an image, and in fact sometimes in some conditions it reports incorrectly even the colors for the text telling that it is black on black or something else, when there are other colors there.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Greer" <jpgreer17@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


We are only limited by the things we think we can't do. And that applies whether sighted or blind. The only reason why anyone should think they can't do it is only because they have not yet found a way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trouble" <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


Well from this post I see you know nothing about
html and how to even write it.
Finding out the color is easy with jaws, Just
rout jaws to pc and put it on what you want the color from.
As far as the rest goes ever try reading the
source code of a page? That will tell you is
scripts or what ever server sides are doing.
you may know some programming, but just because
you don't know! Don't mean others don't!

At 04:32 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
Oh yes, that's true, and sometimes the screen reader doesn't even show us the correct colors, and even if it show us that 2 words come one after another in the same line, it doesn't tell us that maybe the first is a static word in a iframe element and the other one is a text written dynamicly by a javascript code, and it might scroll slowly up or down becoming very confusing for us at a page refresh.

I think we shouldn't fight for beeing what we can't be. Oh yes, there are handicapped people without a leg that participate in different sports, showing that they can do more, but we all know that they will never be equal to a healthy person, no matter how good or bad he is.

And let's not forget that the productivity of the work is also important. What we can do would have a very low value if we would be able to do it in a much longer period than a sighted designer.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


which except for rare occasions is not practical Marlon, since we live in a sighted world, and the majority of folks that we are going to need to deal with are sighted, I'm sorry that you have no experience in the visual view of things, this is one area where I have an advantage.

but... you can't avoid the visual world, it's out there, it's the majority, and so you might as well learn the tricks for dealing with it, use the standards and templates when and where you can, and do your best to adapt.

the best description for trying to convey sight to a person that has never had it, was spoken by a blind dude that never had sight in his life,

its the description I use now a days, since I have found myself often trying to describe visual aspects to those who have never had site.

one thing you should do if you haven't, go to a web site, keep yourself at the top of the page, and turn on the invisible cursor and go up and down the page to see what it actually looks like, such as, the that that instead of the vertical column that jaws presents us with, that its actually more like a message written in Braille, including the navigation links which run from left to right across the page, not in the vertical column that is presented to us.

take care, and good luck,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Team Excellence Award Winner


Hello folks,
Well I have never seen ... so I have no a ... let's call it ... visual standards so, although I can technically do it very well ... I can not plan, like imagine, build ... a nice visual interface, because I don't
know what it is expected. A quick example is I beleaved gfirmly that
the windows explorer put the folder treeview in the top and the
listview below it, and I couldn't beleave when a guy tould me
naturally that the treeview was in the left and the listview was in
the right!!!!
Similarly, because of the top down aproach most part of screen readers use to present web content, I have dificulties to imagine hwat exactly
sighted people expect to see in a webpage or something like this.
I can plan the components of the interface, but deciding * and putting * them in the more "apropriate" place or planning what would happen if
one changes their screen resolution or diicovering by teory how
browsers would react to it without testing is something very
different.
If I had been sighted (and lost my sight after the modern look and
feel's I perhaps would be totally able to build interfaces based on
the standards of what should be common to folks, but the only thing I
can do for now is build an interface based on someone's
specifications. And even then I will spend eforts trying to build
something which belongs to a group of situations that I can't imagine
very well ... and, again, I wouldn't be able to test my own work,
which seen something pretty nasty to any [programmer I know of ... now
the point is: For sure many blind folks can do gui's, but they will
feel more confortable and be more productive if they're doing
something which has not a visual result as its goal ... which should
be perfectly logical.
Thanks
Marlon

2007/11/28, jaffar <jaffar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
Hi Jim. Excellent news. Congrats Jeff. Just shows what, if you all will forgive the pun, application will do for one, not to mention hard work and
determination, and the willingness to try.  Cheers!
----- Original Message -----
From: <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:42 PM
Subject: Team Excellence Award Winner


>
> Hi All,
> Where I consult, one of our fellow listers
was on a team who won a > very
> prestigious award. The team developed a
highly visible web > application.
> Jeff Fidler designed and coded the GUI
interface for the site using > HTML,
> CSS and Javascript. He used Section 508
and W3C techniques and the > sighted
> people in the company rave about it.
>
> I write this to urge anyone who thinks
that someone who is blind > cannot
> design Web interfaces well to keep on trying. You can do it.
>
> Jim
>
> James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
> james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
>
> "Never doubt that a thoughtful group of
committed citizens can change > the
> world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret > Mead
>
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When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
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trouble
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