Actually it's not. A pretty page (as you put it) should not be confused with an accessible user interface. You can develop a brilliant back end if you wish, but if you trust a design team to construct a UI for it and they do so in an inaccessible manner, what is the point if you can't even use it? It's a valuable skill to know how to incorporate accessible UI features in the design phase.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO" <susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 1:16 PMSubject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers
Okay, I think this comes down to personal preference. I would rather spend my valuable time working on business rules rather than a pretty page.
Susie Stanzel -----Original Message-----From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan Garaventa
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 3:06 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers
In general I agree with what you wrote below. However, I do not agree that there is little need for GUI development as a focus. During web development, the vast majority of all accessibility issues related to user experience occur on the front end, and it's necessary for a developer to know how to write a front end GUI that interfaces properly with Assistive Technologies. If this can be done in an attractive way, it only increases the likelihood that the UI component will be accepted into mainstream development, and it also helps to dispel the misconception that all accessible solutions are simply hacks that mar the functionality of originally beautiful components. This is the methodology that I used to build www.WhatSock.com . It's a weird concept, but it holds up in all industries. If you want to convey that something works properly, people have to believe that it works properly; meaning that it needs to look the part as well. Luckily there are excellent tools such as BX, EdSharp, and many others that make this process much easier to accomplish successfully. This makes it possible to create products and services geared for all user types.----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerneels Roos" <kerneels@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers
Hi. Having read all the comments on this thread I think what is emerging as the best solution is in part what exists here already -- a forum for visually impaired programmers to share tips and tricks. It would be worth while to formalise this into a meta university / school of computer science for the assistance of the visually impaired. Becoming a member of this meta university would mean that you receive assistance while advancing on your path of education, whether this might mean a formal degree at a physical or online mainstream university, your own study of a free online course, or your studies at any other facility teaching computer science. The fact is, even with a doctorate in computer science behind your name you still need to keep on learning all the time, so this meta school would also be for you, as in, even as an advanced computer scientist hacker guru, if you are visually impaired you could do with advice, tips and tricks on the latest and greatest. Senior members of this meta university or peer group if you like could assist in educating your lecturers in ways they could teach you so that you can focus on the course subject and not be forever side tracked by your fights with inaccessible tools or teaching methodologies. Some time during the last ten years, disability units have emerged at the universities in my country, South Africa. These units assist disabled students in their studies but I can imagine they would be extremely grateful to be able to tap into a global, focused organisation's resources -- the focus being computer science or rather how best to assist disabled students wanting to study computer science. The meta university of assistance I'm invisaging could be this valuable resource individuals and disability units could tap into. And finally, about this topic, on a practical note. I think a great start is sites like nonvisualdevelopment.org and the fruitbasket site, but what really is needed is structured information on how to get from point A to point B and how others have solved the challenges along the way? Another great resource would be a structured wealth of information on the work options for visually impaired programmers, as in, all of us working as programmers could complete a carefully designed sort of resume or profile explaining how we got to be professional programmers. This would serve as an encouragement for new students and also help all of us identify opportunities that otherwise might go unnoticed. This is really just my opinion, but the obsession of the visually impaired programmer community, or some of it's members, with building GUI's is downright sad. One shouldn't be fooled in thinking computers or programming is all about pretty interfaces and eye candy. What about web servers, command line tools, compilers, RDBMS's, network stacks, Google's back ends, Amazon's Elastic Cloud Computing infrastructure, operating system internals, device drivers, micro code, parallel and distributed concurrent real time systems and the list goes on and on and on... Any school of higher education that spends time on teaching how to code GUI's is missing the point, unless they teach broad, general human computer interaction design principals. How GUI's actually should look should be part of an arts programme really, or information design / new media course., not programming. Regards, Kerneels On 4/8/2011 6:29 PM, Dave wrote:The lack of employment for the blind isn't exclusive to those who choose to be developers. It's a more general problem of inequities in education, resources, and socialization to which many blind folks face. At least from my personal experience, the journey of discovering one's own path towards an accessible environment whether it be a virtual one used for development or a physical one to navigate through unfamiliar geographic regions is valuable in it of itself and is an individual skill that one needs to learn for him/herself. If someone's serious about doing professional development along side sighted colleagues, you will have to "roll" your own accessibility and often times that means digging into systems or spending extra time automating tasks. It's not for everyone :). In short, that means you need an even deeper understanding of frameworks, OS's, and general computer science theory than your average "programmer". On 4/8/11, Bryan Garaventa<bgaraventa11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I believe the answer to 'why are there fewer when there is more access to knowledge' has to do with an irony actually. In general things are much more accessible than they used to be, and there are many more accessible distractions available to everyone. Necessity drives innovation after all, so if there is less necessity for the general population, less people will be compelled to test the bounds of innovation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cox"<waywardgeek@xxxxxxxxx> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:20 AM Subject: Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I think trying to just teach programming though is counterproductive because the classes in college do that rather well. I guess teaching people to use tools might be a better goal then teaching coding.Well, you may be right. With the web, learning just about anything is so much easier than when I was a kid. What remains a mystery to me is why we're not seeing blind kids going nuts programming computers. Surely they have plenty of access to them in the US. Is there anything that can be done to inspire the new generation of blind kids to dive in and learn what's under the hood? Why do so few seem to make it? Bill __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Kerneels Roos Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998 Skype: cornelis.roos __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
