Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers
- From: Bill Cox <waywardgeek@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 10:32:50 -0400
Can you point me to his web site? I'd like to add him to the list of
people to contact.
Thanks,
Bill
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jared Wright <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I know one gentleman is offering a weekly class on Window Eyes scripting
> through TeamTalk on Sunday at 7 PM. The project seems to be going well,
> although I haven't actually experienced any of the lessons firsthand.
> On 4/7/2011 5:04 PM, John G wrote:
>>
>> What does the list think of the idea of a live audio channel as an
>> extension of programming Blind and nonvisualdevelopment.org?
>> Skype, TeamTalk offer two ways of achieving this goal.
>> With the wealth of knowledge on this list I'm sure it could become an
>> invaluable source of learning.
>> Interactive sessions, lectures if you like, could range from
>> accessibility matters to straitforward software engineering.
>> for example, programming with VS and JFW or Window-Eyes, the basics of
>> programming, programming in Java, object oriented analysis and design,
>> databases, the list goes on.
>> Such a scheme would require organisation and discipline to pull off but
>> I have no doubt we've plenty of both on PB.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> John
>>
>>> I also am inclined to agree with this. I'm just finished with school
>>> and haven't gotten to see first hand just how much of an impact it
>>> will have in the workforce, I admit, but I know I learned a lot about
>>> not just programming but about working smoothly on a development team
>>> otherwise made up of sighted developers by going to a "normal"
>>> university for CompSci. My fear would be that in a special environment
>>> for blind programming instruction all the tools used for class would
>>> be the most accessible ones available. Then a student would get into
>>> the work force with an employer who doesn't use those ideal accessible
>>> tools and the student would be ill-equipped to problem solve this
>>> challenge. I think having a vibrant, active community of blind coders
>>> working on things like nonvisualdevelopment.org and contributing to
>>> forums like this one is a great way to help address the unique
>>> challenges of being a blind coder, but in the grand scheme of things I
>>> feel I spend about 10% of my time devoted to programming and related
>>> pursuits finding blind-friendly ways of using tools or environments.
>>> The other 90% is the same process of learning programming that my
>>> sighted peers take on. I also do think there would be issues with many
>>> employers disregarding or harboring skepticism of applicants who
>>> listed a specialized school for blind people on a resumé. Still, a
>>> good idea to kick around and get a variety of prospectives on.
>>> On 4/7/2011 3:23 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with this as well.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Sina
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 1:08 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for
>>>> blind programmers
>>>>
>>>> I have to say this even though I think there is a place for what you're
>>>> thinking of.
>>>>
>>>> I hate sepertive schools. One of the things that made me a good
>>>> programmer
>>>> was competing against the people I would be competing against in the
>>>> work
>>>> world In the academic world.
>>>>
>>>> The salt Lake community college had a class run by novel that taught
>>>> blind
>>>> people to code for Novel OS but I found the students that came out of
>>>> their
>>>> knew a single thing and not very well.
>>>>
>>>> Now with that said if the standards are high enough a school like
>>>> this could
>>>> be a good benefit but you have to be careful not to dumb down both
>>>> the speed
>>>> of learning or quality thereof. Of course that is true for all schools.
>>>>
>>>> One last thing though that the regular schools taught me. That is
>>>> part of
>>>> life as a blind coder is finding ways to cope with problems that you run
>>>> into. If you have things handed to you, you might not be as affective
>>>> when
>>>> you get out in the work world.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Cox
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:03 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind
>>>> programmers
>>>>
>>>> This is still in the dumb-idea phase, and I don't have any funding
>>>> lined up to get this started. That said...
>>>>
>>>> I have not been able to find any on-line school for teaching blind
>>>> people to become professional programmers. I feel the world needs
>>>> such an organization. I am not able to start such a school myself,
>>>> but I would be interested in assisting social entrepreneurs in
>>>> starting such a venture. I it would best be implemented as a
>>>> for-profit social entrepreneurial venture. You can read about social
>>>> entrepreneurs here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ashoka.org/social_entrepreneur
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_entrepreneurship
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking it could be a Low Profit Corporation (LPC) founded to run
>>>> the school for a profit. Everyone hired in teaching or management
>>>> would be vision impaired or blind. Students would attend classes
>>>> on-line, and could be anywhere in the world. Classes would not be
>>>> free (maybe $1,000 per 1-semester course?). Students who are too poor
>>>> to pay would be expected to do well in their courses and make up their
>>>> fees by assisting teaching of those courses in later semesters. They
>>>> might also be required to work for an associated consulting company to
>>>> earn tuition. Students would be encouraged to help mentor each other
>>>> in any case.
>>>>
>>>> Associated with the school could be a software consulting services
>>>> company. The company would only hire vision impaired programmers, and
>>>> students wanting to work for the company could take classes designed
>>>> to train them in the skills they'll need. The company might encourage
>>>> it's employees to spend one day a week on FOSS projects of their
>>>> interest, which hopefully would include improving accessibility.
>>>>
>>>> Rough numbers to back up the idea: There are around 15 million people
>>>> with "severe" vision impairments in the US. Roughly half of those
>>>> people are too old. Half of the rest may have other impairments that
>>>> would prevent them from becoming programmers. In the general
>>>> population, there are 1 programmer out of every 500 people in the US.
>>>> I would expect a ratio at least that high among the blind, or about
>>>> 7,500 professional programmers in the US alone. If we took 20 years
>>>> to train that many, it'd be 375 new students per year, and assuming a
>>>> two year program, we'd have 750 students. If only half paid the class
>>>> fees, but took three classes at a time (a full load), that'd be
>>>> $3,000*750*2 = $4.5 million per year. My kids go to a school which
>>>> happens to have about 750 students and a budget of just over $4
>>>> million per year, and that includes paying for a school. So, that
>>>> math seems to work out, but we're not talking about anyone making a
>>>> billion dollars in this effort. This is not a VC-fundable idea, but
>>>> it might attract funding from groups that invest in socially
>>>> beneficial startups.
>>>>
>>>> I know a couple of good candidates to start this school, and one might
>>>> be interested in actually doing it. Are there any good blind or
>>>> vision impaired people you guys could recommend for me to talk to? I
>>>> think the key would be finding the right couple of guys.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bill
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