Re: Screen Reader Compatibility

I agree with you my friend, but I simply pointed you why jaws is now more popular than window eyes. This may be will change in time, if gwmicro starts an agresively campain of promotion, creates a way that jaws users can simply switch to windoww eye with out a great learning curve, And I am sure that this will be, but you don't expect that in 3 years of truly window eyes existence, you will gain what fs gained in more than 10 years. And don't forget that fs had the oportunity to be amoung first on the market which proposed a truly featured screen reader, this is a thing which change hardly. 
Is better to be the first, than to try to gain the first position.
And you must agree with me that, the fully featured window eyes is younger, more younger than jaws. More thant that, if window eyes should be a new product on the market, that should be better, but not, it is a old product refactored, but people have seen the old one and you now must put more efort to convince people to use the new refactored software after they saw the old one. Try to understand what I am saying, is not all about technical performances, we are speaking here about markets, economics and people. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Wright" <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Compatibility
1. Window Eyes has a self-contained Eloquence driver now that is equal to JFW's in every way. 2. Who cares who had scripting back in 1998? It's now 2010, friend, and WE took the time to do there's right, and thus you have a scripting environment that uses programming languages we already use rather than than proprietary garbage, adheres to better common programming practices, and supports COM automation (which is truly a beautiful thing.) 
3. The JAWS SMA authorizes only two upgrades, while WE's authorizes three.
4. JAWS requires an additional $200 for remote desktop access. Window Eyes does not, making the pricing difference even more clear. 
5. If you insist on cracking, Window Eyes is an easier crack than JFW.
Normally I wouldn't care, but so many projects, like Sodbeans, seem to juse jump on the JAWS bandwagon by default. This perception needs to change, because I think you can make a pretty convincing case that JFW is pretty definitively inferior to Window Eyes. The only things JAWS users can give me for why they don't switch is that they are stubborn and do not want to learn the WE interface. I mean, , JAWS 11 is loaded with ugly regressions. Couple this with some of Freedom's political and legal jockeying over the last few years, and I think it's clear that they do not want to see AT improve at as rapid a pace as possible. They just want to make a dollar off blind people who are struggling for that dollar as it is. That isn't to say the folks at GW Micro aren't trying to make a living, but FS in my opinion has reached the point of being downright sleezy. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. 

Jared



On 1/24/2010 4:41 AM, black ares wrote:
man, in time I've started using jaws, in our part of world, windows eyes mean nothing. More years after, (10 or so) window eyes was poor in features, worked in less situations than jaws. 
Look at the scripting feature you claim here.
In what year did windows eyes introduced scripting? How I remember, some two or three years ago, man, jaws had scripting still from 1998 (as farr as I know), because in 1998 I started using a pc and also jaws for windows and surprisingly hal5 for dos.
Also, I will speak here about a practice that make you all to be ofenced acting in law supporters, but on the other side, is a practice which gives help to marketing. 
And if you don't guess what is about I will tell you, is about cracks.
In early life, when I had no money to buy such expensive licenses (in my country medium sallary is around 500 euro even now), I found jaws cracks and used jaws with crack from 1998 til 2006 during my high school studies and after during my university studies. After, when I've got employed and begun making money with help of screen readers as a software developer, what screen reader license do you think I have bought? 
Sure the one I was used to.
I had a fairly great experience with jaws and even not thought to spent 900 dolars to a new software, at that time with less features than jaws, and to spent time to learn it. 

More than that, I am looking now at your pricing plan there
and it is true window eyes is 895 dolars and jaws is 1095 dolars so 200 dolars difference, but jaws sma is 200 dolars and windows eyes is 300 dolars. so in time, you get all money back and is no difference between the two companies. The only thing that difers is the marketing plan and for sure the product and unfortunately for you, freedom scientific are better both. 

Other things which keeped me away from window eyes:
1. the synth, I realy love elocuence and that delktalk and how the hell is called and spelled, is very lazy and sounds poorly compared to elocuence. Window eyes introducet elocuence after 2002 and not as a default synth and when, in 2006 I wanted to give a try to window eyes, I ended up not understanding the dectalk even for succeeding to change it in elocuence... I gave up. 2. also the keyboard differences from jaws which put me in a new environment where I don't know how to get the informations I wanted to, scared me. 3. lacs of come crack, for permeting me to evaluate best the software, until 2007 I didn't see any cracks for window eyes and how I remember (may be I am wrong) in demo mode window eyes, in its early stages acted only for 10 minutes.
So, what you see now man, is the results of a wrong marketing campain that gwmicro have done during years. For a product, the product it self and a low price is not enough to sell the product. In this moment, even you will offer the window eyes for free, you will not get so rapidly customers, because there are true alternatives there like nvda. best regards my friend and think better, the software market does not mean only good technics developed in a software. 
--
Radu Vasile
--------------------------------------
Project manager and software architect
Cell: +40722614784
e-mail:
rvasile@xxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Wright" <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: Screen Reader Compatibility
I'm definitely disappointed to see JAWS getting all the attention on the Windows side. Personal, subjective preference aside, I think most of us can agree that It's more expensive than Window Eyes, has an inferior scripting implementation compared to Window Eyes, uses more system resources than Window Eyes, and yet so many accessibility products worry about compatibility with JFW which translates to implicit support for Freedom Scientific's frivolous litigation, forced Braille driver signing, and other nonsense that serves the blind community in no useful fashion. It sounds like you've already gotten pretty far on your roadmap for Windows with JAWS already, so I'll say no more. Hopefully you'll revisit the possibility of Window Eyes compatibility in the future, although I guess with Window Eyes being more adaptable (my opinion of course) it'll be easier for its users to adapt it to Sotbeans themselves. 

Jared

On 1/23/2010 9:59 AM, Andreas Stefik wrote:

Hi folks,
We're working hard out here on screen reader compatibility on the Sappy/Sodbeans projects in NetBeans. We're trying to decide which screen readers we should make our code compatible with. We realistically can't do all of them in the short term and we are starting with Jaws/ OSX Voice Over. Once those are complete, any suggestions on what screen readers the community would prefer come next? Any preferences?
We were thinking maybe a unix flavor screen reader, perhaps Orca, but are open to suggestions. What does the community think? 

Andreas Stefik, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Computer Science
Southern Illinois University Edwardsville


__________
View the list's information and change your settings at http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind 



__________
View the list's information and change your settings at http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind 



__________
View the list's information and change your settings at http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind 



__________
View the list's information and change your settings at http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

Other related posts: