RE: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

  • From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:25:54 -0500

*nod*, glad to hear it.

Take care,
Sina 

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 10:12 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

Hi,
And Jamal has always bent over way more than backwards to respond to me to 
understand and implement my suggestions. 

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here. 
Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility
advice


-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 10:02 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

Yes, very well said.

While I think that Tyler could have been more polite in pointing out the 
errors, I do disagree strongly that unless if you can fix
it, the bug/complaint isn't worth anything.

In fact, Jamal asked him, when have you released any open source project that 
folks other than yourself have found useful.
Unfortunately, that doesn't matter with open source projects. If only the bugs 
reported by open source hackers got fixed, then open
source software would be in a very sad and miserable pathetic place. Luckily, 
at least for other professionally conducted open
source projects, this isn't the case.;.

However, Jamal's response is typical of an entire group of open source 
developers who have the classic response. Hey, it's open
source, you fix it.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:05 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

I have to say... open source or not, once you release something to the 
community expect it to be reviewed and ridiculed, and be
prepared to spend your life working on it. Yes, I have experience in this and 
it gets exhausting. When you release something that is
open source, and are not constantly correcting bugs, you can't expect your user 
base to fix them all (or in fact, any of them) -- it
just doesn't work like that.

I've written a few C++ libraries and have released them. All of them have been 
open source. That has not stopped the user base from
asking for more features, showing ME where the bugs are and expecting ME to fix 
them. The simple fact is, if you plan on developing
a product and release it to the general public, open source or not, be prepared 
to support it. To release something and then
completely abandon it or barely support it will look horrible on the developer.

I personally don't use Jamal's editor, but I thought I would point this out.

On 11/30/2010 4:02 AM, Ken Perry wrote:
> If you know what you're talking about fix it.  It is open source.  Do 
> you remember what that means?  I never said the slow time was great I 
> said it's a usable tool.  We are waiting for your enlightened fix.
> It's one thing to bitch about a problem.  It's another to fix the 
> problem.  I will mention that this was and is again the problem with 
> the visual st udio 2005 to 2008 scripts.  We all wine that it don't 
> work but how many of us take the time to do better or to fix the 
> problems that exist.  If your fix works get it in Jamal is one of the 
> best at getting peoples fixes in that I know of.  In fact if you have 
> enough time to spend writing all these complaints you surely have the time to 
> write a few lines of fix code.
>
> Ken
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Littlefield, Tyler
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:41 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>
> yes. Even -if- I know what I'm talking about. Have you ever bothered 
> looking at that code? not to mention the mangling I had to do to get 
> my startup time to decrease from 45 seconds, we're using 
> microsoft.visualbasic classes for IO. There's little to no docs. I 
> spent hours messing with it, I know how frustrating it is. There's a 
> difference in reading horrible code and cleanly well-written code. But 
> of course, I just don't know what I'm talking about and code here 
> isn't the key. What matters as long as it works? We'll just overlook 
> some lag that an editor shouldn't experience -at all- for startup.
> Hell, 3-d games load faster. But then again, experience is the key, 
> and I don't know what I'm talking about...
>
> On 11/29/2010 9:34 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>> I think Jamal experience here is the key.  Even if Tylor knew what he 
>> was talking about I actually had the word perfect code version 6.1 on 
>> my computer at one time because I took class from one of the coders.
>> If you want to see any code that is in need of drugs while reading 
>> that was one
> of
>> them.  It was still the best word processor and in my opinion still is.
> It
>> is like the old argument of which programming language is better the 
>> one
> you
>> can do millions of things in one line or 1 thing in millions of lines.
> The
>> truth is the best one is the one that gets the job done and that 
>> other people can get us out of it.  I think I can say for many here 
>> that Ed
> sharp
>> program while not perfect (what program is) is more than useful and I 
>> for one being a professional prprogrammer who has used it and will 
>> use it
> again
>> am glad you
>>    are out there making tools like this.  If I wanted an editor to 
>> load quickly I would sit down and write it in ASM if I want a tool 
>> that can do millions of things I would use Dll's to make the program 
>> as bug free as possible which is exactly what you did it seems.
>>
>> Keep up the good work.
>>
>> Ken
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal 
>> Mazrui
>> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:29 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: Littlefield, Tyler
>> Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>>
>> Tyler,
>> Please let us know when you actually publish a free, open source 
>> application, including documentation, that people besides yourself 
>> find worthwhile to use ....
>>
>> Jamal
>>
>> On 11/29/2010 12:30 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
>>> It's in edsharp.cs in the edsharp folder. I recommend lots of pain 
>>> killers before you begin...
>>> On 11/29/2010 9:09 AM, RicksPlace wrote:
>>>> Hi: Is that .net code? If so is it vb.net or csharp or what? 
>>>> Someone mentioned .net before but I am not sure about it. I am just 
>>>> interested a little to see how it was developed.
>>>> Rick USA
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
>>>> <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You -could- write code, but adding to a file of 12k lines with 
>>>>> minimal documentation and horrible coding is kind of hard to do. I 
>>>>> had to spend hours to get the thing to not take 30 seconds to 
>>>>> start up. I like edsharp, but now a lot less so now that I've seen 
>>>>> how the code under the hood works. It doesn't change that it is a 
>>>>> good editor, just kind of shines and shows why the problems that 
>>>>> exist do exist for me.
>>>>> On 11/29/2010 4:58 AM, Homme, James wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Kerneels,
>>>>>> I'm unsure how you'd define the perfect text editor, but in my 
>>>>>> view, and I've put it through a lot of its paces, EdSharp is my 
>>>>>> editor of choice. Second choice for me is NoteTab or NoteTab Pro 
>>>>>> if you want to spend the $29 US. I'd recommend that you do that 
>>>>>> if you use NoteTab. It has extremely powerful features. But 
>>>>>> EdSharp talks better out of the box, because it was written for 
>>>>>> people who are blind. And you can spend the time to customize it 
>>>>>> the way you want it to work if you are willing to write code that 
>>>>>> hooks into it, because it offers you most of .Net to play with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>>>> Usability Services,
>>>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme Internal recipients, Read 
>>>>>> my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here. Accessibility
>>>>>> Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>> Kerneels Roos
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:02 AM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi list,
>>>>>> I'm looking for some great programmer's text editors that are 
>>>>>> compattible with NVDA and/or JAWS. Since the latest NVDA seems to 
>>>>>> have some significant improvements over previous versions, I was 
>>>>>> wondering which text editors might now also become compattible 
>>>>>> with NVDA. It would actualy be a good idea to setup a few pages 
>>>>>> with tables comparing how well each editor works with all the 
>>>>>> diferent screen readers. Such a comparison database would be a 
>>>>>> great idea for a one stop refernce for many kinds of 
>>>>>> applications, but I thought the most important one for a 
>>>>>> programmer is definately a good text editor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would other members on this list be interested in and/or willing 
>>>>>> to assist in compiling such a database?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it could save a lot of time and effort for all of us if 
>>>>>> there could be a one stop database with profiles of useful 
>>>>>> applications, categorised by the job they perform and how well 
>>>>>> they perform that
> job.
>>>>>> To start off, it could be limited to apps useful to programmers 
>>>>>> and text editors in particular.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kerneels Roos
>>>>>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>>>>>> Skype: cornelis.roos
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
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