Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor

It's been a while since I've done any serious .Net hacking, but one
way to help out with startup times is to ngen the .Net binary.  I
recall this having fairly good results when I had the inclination to
write in .Net.

As for the code, once you get to sniff large code bases, you *won't*
complain as many if not all have quirks that may annoy you.  .Net
though, and the features of VS help to make this somewhat of a mute
point.  Did you actually use the outlining features of VS?  Sorry, but
it's not that hard to trace down the main execution path once you
understand the major pieces and have manually traced through critical
code paths.  Could Edsharp.cs be split into one file per class.  Could
the classes be refactored to maintainable pieces (subdivided).  Could
the commented code blocks be removed. Could there be xml comments per
method/class.  Sure, but unless the project scales beyond 1, who
cares.

On 11/30/10, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Guys: OK, so if the app takes time to load and you have the fix, post it
> or send it to Jamal Ty. That said, I think Jamal did not develop the app in
> Visual Studio but rather free hand in a text editor. The support code for
> allot of UI is quite complex and messy to begin with and trying to interface
> other plug-in apps, so too speak, and build patches would make things allot
> more messy. My guess is that much of the functionallity is based on
> externally developed apps by other people with diferent design habbits,
> naming conventions and tool usage. When you start mashing stuff together
> from varying sources, converting or forcing external and differing
> languages, converted or scripted or the actual executable as a called
> method, things will get very messy very fast as opposed to a nice, compact
> app developed on one platform by one person. Anyway, Just post your fix TY
> and unless you are willing to completely ReWrite the code don't complain
> about it because it makes you look funky - like someone who does not know
> anything about the subject when you really do but have just not had enough
> larger scale, cross platform or app experience to spot those typical coding
> problems and the mess they can cause. Remember, you need to throw things
> together as fast as you can and, unless you are developing a stand-alone,
> single programmer app, you will experience messy code more and more
> depending on how many external apps you encorporate and in what form. Jamal
> tried to do allot, a text editor is a real challange, in his free app. He
> butchered other code, converted thingys and mashed other marvels of
> creativity into a single app without worrying about the structure or
> maintainability because it was his app and he understood it well enough to
> get the job done. That is always the keyy, get the job done using the best
> tools you have at your disposal. Me, I work in Visual Studio as much as
> possible. That gives me good enough code, everything is compatible and it
> works and is much more maintainable than hand written code. The drawback is
> that I might have to do some fudging around to encorporate external
> applications in other languages into an app developed in MS VS. I guess I
> just would say, stop grumbling or, at least, post code along with the
> grumbling and do what the bottom line always is - GET The Job Done -
> Yesterday of course.
> Rick USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>
>
>> yes. Even -if- I know what I'm talking about. Have you ever bothered
>> looking at that code? not to mention the mangling I had to do to get my
>> startup time to decrease from 45 seconds, we're using
>> microsoft.visualbasic classes for IO. There's little to no docs. I spent
>> hours messing with it, I know how frustrating it is. There's a difference
>> in reading horrible code and cleanly well-written code. But of course, I
>> just don't know what I'm talking about and code here isn't the key. What
>> matters as long as it works? We'll just overlook some lag that an editor
>> shouldn't experience -at all- for startup. Hell, 3-d games load faster.
>> But then again, experience is the key, and I don't know what I'm talking
>> about...
>>
>> On 11/29/2010 9:34 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>> I think Jamal experience here is the key.  Even if Tylor knew what he was
>>> talking about I actually had the word perfect code version 6.1 on my
>>> computer at one time because I took class from one of the coders.  If you
>>> want to see any code that is in need of drugs while reading that was one
>>> of
>>> them.  It was still the best word processor and in my opinion still is.
>>> It
>>> is like the old argument of which programming language is better the one
>>> you
>>> can do millions of things in one line or 1 thing in millions of lines.
>>> The
>>> truth is the best one is the one that gets the job done and that other
>>> people can get us out of it.  I think I can say for many here that Ed
>>> sharp
>>> program while not perfect (what program is) is more than useful and I for
>>> one being a professional prprogrammer who has used it and will use it
>>> again
>>> am glad you
>>>   are out there making tools like this.  If I wanted an editor to load
>>> quickly I would sit down and write it in ASM if I want a tool that can do
>>> millions of things I would use Dll's to make the program as bug free as
>>> possible which is exactly what you did it seems.
>>>
>>> Keep up the good work.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
>>> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:29 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Cc: Littlefield, Tyler
>>> Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>>>
>>> Tyler,
>>> Please let us know when you actually publish a free, open source
>>> application, including documentation, that people besides yourself find
>>> worthwhile to use ....
>>>
>>> Jamal
>>>
>>> On 11/29/2010 12:30 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
>>>> It's in edsharp.cs in the edsharp folder. I recommend lots of pain
>>>> killers before you begin...
>>>> On 11/29/2010 9:09 AM, RicksPlace wrote:
>>>>> Hi: Is that .net code? If so is it vb.net or csharp or what? Someone
>>>>> mentioned .net before but I am not sure about it. I am just interested
>>>>> a little to see how it was developed.
>>>>> Rick USA
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
>>>>> <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 9:14 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You -could- write code, but adding to a file of 12k lines with
>>>>>> minimal documentation and horrible coding is kind of hard to do. I
>>>>>> had to spend hours to get the thing to not take 30 seconds to start
>>>>>> up. I like edsharp, but now a lot less so now that I've seen how the
>>>>>> code under the hood works. It doesn't change that it is a good
>>>>>> editor, just kind of shines and shows why the problems that exist do
>>>>>> exist for me.
>>>>>> On 11/29/2010 4:58 AM, Homme, James wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Kerneels,
>>>>>>> I'm unsure how you'd define the perfect text editor, but in my view,
>>>>>>> and I've put it through a lot of its paces, EdSharp is my editor of
>>>>>>> choice. Second choice for me is NoteTab or NoteTab Pro if you want
>>>>>>> to spend the $29 US. I'd recommend that you do that if you use
>>>>>>> NoteTab. It has extremely powerful features. But EdSharp talks
>>>>>>> better out of the box, because it was written for people who are
>>>>>>> blind. And you can spend the time to customize it the way you want
>>>>>>> it to work if you are willing to write code that hooks into it,
>>>>>>> because it offers you most of .Net to play with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim Homme,
>>>>>>> Usability Services,
>>>>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>>>>>>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
>>>>>>> accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and
>>>>>>> accessibility advice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels
>>>>>>> Roos
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:02 AM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Quest for the Perfect Text Editor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi list,
>>>>>>> I'm looking for some great programmer's text editors that are
>>>>>>> compattible with NVDA and/or JAWS. Since the latest NVDA seems to
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> some significant improvements over previous versions, I was wondering
>>>>>>> which text editors might now also become compattible with NVDA. It
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> actualy be a good idea to setup a few pages with tables comparing how
>>>>>>> well each editor works with all the diferent screen readers. Such a
>>>>>>> comparison database would be a great idea for a one stop refernce for
>>>>>>> many kinds of applications, but I thought the most important one for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> programmer is definately a good text editor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would other members on this list be interested in and/or willing to
>>>>>>> assist in compiling such a database?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think it could save a lot of time and effort for all of us if there
>>>>>>> could be a one stop database with profiles of useful applications,
>>>>>>> categorised by the job they perform and how well they perform that
>>>>>>> job.
>>>>>>> To start off, it could be limited to apps useful to programmers and
>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>> editors in particular.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kerneels Roos
>>>>>>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>>>>>>> Skype: cornelis.roos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
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>>>>> __________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ty
>>
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>
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