RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

  • From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:29:44 -0400

Hi Sina,
I can see why you'd hate Cobol. Your e-mails are sometimes a bit terse. <grin>.

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme. NonVisualDevelopment.org: Blind people 
can drive computers<http://www.nonvisualdevelopment.org/>. Demonstration GUI 
Programs: You can program GUI's while blind.<http://www.fruitbasketdemos.org/>

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:29 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

Oh god, please don't tempt him. You're not the one who gets the code emails at  
1:00am in the morning, and I'm not learning cobol!!!! I refuse!

The line must be drawn, here!

*grin*

Take care,
Sina




From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:22 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

Hi Sina,
I bet he didn't do it in Cobol.

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme. NonVisualDevelopment.org: Blind people 
can drive computers<http://www.nonvisualdevelopment.org/>. Demonstration GUI 
Programs: You can program GUI's while blind.<http://www.fruitbasketdemos.org/>

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:16 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

Oh my god, and he's written it in like 10 other languages too.

Do you know how sick I was of hearing about Yahtzee! Lol

But it's so addictive!

Take care,
Sina


From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:38 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

I could also give you some really good guide lines on the game of Yahtzee since 
I have actually wrote it for Windows mobile and Windows  and it runs on both 
with the same executable which was a pretty cool thing to pull off using c#   
It also had an OOP die that was used in an OOP dice box and the scorecard and 
stuff was all laid out in an object oriented way.  I had thought of using it to 
do a class in OOP in fact that is why I was asking about the book stuff on NDN.

Ken

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:26 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects


I agree with this. I think a card game, of which there are thousands, might be 
the best because it lets you have some of that chess like feel in that you 
still have to solve representation problems. The game of life or monopoly would 
do the same thing to, but the boards are a bit more complicated so folks tend 
to abstract them out into Rules classes.

Poker is probably one of the simplest after you pass things like 21/blackjack 
and so on.

Take care,
Sina




From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:57 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

Jim,

I want to make a small suggestion.  Your starting out with a very difficult 
problem to use OOPO to solve.  The truth is there are a lot of ways you can do 
this for a chess game and none of them are really that good.   The problem is 
chess is really just  search tree and a state machine and making objects out of 
nouns and methods out of actions will not make the best of the chess games.  If 
you're looking to learn OOP I would suggest a game like Monopoly or Life where 
you can actually have Objects work as they should for example you could have 
players on Monopoly, locations that have descriptions, prices, and things of 
the sort.  Maybe start with a card game where you can have objects that deal 
with decks of cards and players and score cards and things of the sort.    It's 
really up to you but Chess gets too complicated to fast and then you're not 
really thinking OOP your trying to decide the best method of figuring out who 
is winning which is a tougher problem then you might think.

Ken

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 3:27 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

Hi,
If it's OK, I'd like to take this a little further. I was thinking about my  
little chess move validation project. I thought I would sit down and try to 
write out a little plan, because my book says that the nouns become objects, 
but I started to get confused when I asked myself this question. Do the pieces 
move, do the squares on the board somehow get pieces, or does some controller 
in the sky move the pieces? In the real world, the controller would be the 
player who is moving the pieces. The pieces can't move them selves, and all the 
board can do is sit there and have pieces on its squares. The rules would be 
another object, would they not? Oh my head.

Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme. NonVisualDevelopment.org: Blind people 
can drive computers<http://www.nonvisualdevelopment.org/>. Demonstration GUI 
Programs: You can program GUI's while blind.<http://www.fruitbasketdemos.org/>

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 3:20 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Now I Know Why I'm Having Trouble With Objects

Hi,
I found this humorous.

Understanding the Parts of VBA "Speech"

If you were going to play soccer using BASIC, the instruction to kick a ball 
would look something like

"Kick the Ball"

Hey-this is how we talk! It makes sense. You have a verb (kick) and then a noun 
(the ball). In the BASIC code in the preceding section, you have a verb
(print) and a noun (an asterisk). Life is good.

Here is the problem. VBA doesn't work like this. No object-oriented language 
works like this. In an object-oriented language, the objects (the nouns) are
most important (hence, the name: object oriented). If you are going to play 
soccer with VBA, the basic structure would be:

Ball.Kick

You have a noun-the ball. It comes first. In VBA, this is an object
. Then you have the verb-to kick. It comes next. In VBA, this is a method.

The basic structure of VBA is a bunch of lines of code where you have

Object.Method

Sorry, this is not English. If you took a romance language in high school, you 
will remember that they used a "noun adjective" construct, but I don't know
anyone who speaks in "noun verb" when telling someone to do something. Do you 
talk like this?

Water.Drink
Food.Eat
Girl.Kiss

Of course not. That is why VBA is so confusing to someone who previously 
stepped foot in a procedural programming class.

Let's carry the analogy on a bit. Imagine you walk onto a grassy field and 
there are five balls in front of you. There is a soccer ball, a basketball, a
baseball, a bowling ball, and a tennis ball. You want to instruct the kid on 
your soccer team to

Kick the soccer ball

If you tell him kick the ball (or ball.kick
), you really aren't sure which one he will kick. Maybe he will kick the one 
closest to him. This could be a real problem if he is standing in front of
the bowling ball.


Jim

Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme. NonVisualDevelopment.org: Blind people 
can drive computers<http://www.nonvisualdevelopment.org/>. Demonstration GUI 
Programs: You can program GUI's while blind.<http://www.fruitbasketdemos.org/>


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