RE: Need tutorials of VB6

  • From: Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 22:45:14 +0000

I'm well aware of that.  And I have tons of books over here that pertain to C#, 
and I plan to read every single one of them and they give the basics of how 
everything works along with the examples.  I have a ton of CLI demos right now 
(I think I've got eight so far), and I plan to only get more.  I'm probably 
going to do a ton of it tonight anyway as I have an open source project I have 
to hurry up and get to before I worry about implementing my own chat service or 
any of my other goals.  (for if I've inspired a project, I'm not going to have 
someone else do all the work, though this guy has done quite a bit).  But we're 
backlogged because there's a bug in the underlying software (HMailServer).  
We're implementing an ASP.net/WCF web service/web application that will act as 
an alternate admin panel to the software because I think that Web apps that 
work in front of windows applications should be ASP.net rather than PHP.    

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Tseng
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 6:18 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6

Catherine,

Though I think the goal is a great one (if you want to implement your own voice 
chat service for example), you might want to start with something more useful 
as a building block.

You should probably pick a platform/language and get to know it *very* well.  
This means to me becoming comfortable with the language in it of itself perhaps 
with minimal use of a command line to drive your programs.  This also includes 
understanding the languages features, syntax, symantics, object-orientedness, 
control flow, packaging, standard libs, etc.  For .Net this could take some 
time :), but it's worth it to do this part "right" and spend the necessary 
hours/months to get it.

Thereafter, you can look into implementing web services.  This does require 
lots of knowledge about how the internet relays traffic via various layered 
protocol's.  I find it useful to understand the "atoms" of the system.  In 
unix, for example, http servers are largely built upon BSD styled sockets and 
via low-level system calls.  Having that picture of exactly what's going on 
when an http request goes from a browser down to hardware across the wire to 
another machine and eventually resulting in a response is sort of what you're 
after.
Without that kind of grounding, you'll just throw out T.L.A.'s without 
understanding them and coding up such a project would become quickly an 
exercise in stabbing in the dark as it were.



On 7/22/11, Katherine Moss <Katherine.Moss@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Implementing custom protocols might be something down the line for me, 
> but the huge question is where to start and what to learn first to get 
> it to work properly.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Coale
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 6:02 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6
>
> I'm not very experienced without any kind of telephony protocols; 
> however, if .NET doesn't offer support for a specific protocol that 
> just means you have two choices: download a library that implements 
> it, or implement the protocol yourself.
>
> On 7/22/2011 2:57 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:
>> I know this, but the .net framework offers no classes for the 
>> protocols STUN, RTP, or SIP, I don't think.  Does it?  And the 
>> problem, most CIP software seems to require a softphone and a number 
>> to connect to it rather than being based on user name/ID and password 
>> to talk or IM with it.  I'd have to first extend the .net framework, right?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
>> Christopher Coale
>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 5:22 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6
>>
>> There's no reason you can't. ;)
>>
>> On 7/22/2011 2:18 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:
>>> I was thinking more like a Skype-ish clone.  Something like that but 
>>> with an open protocol.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
>>> Christopher Coale
>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 5:16 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>
>>> That's something that can very easily be written using .NET. In 
>>> fact, a close friend of mine created a whiteboard sharing 
>>> application not too long ago using C#.
>>>
>>> You might not necessarily hit a wall that says it can't be done, but 
>>> you will definitely hit a wall that says "this seems too complicated 
>>> to do in this language." If that's the case, you choose a more suitable 
>>> language.
>>>
>>> On 7/22/2011 2:13 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:
>>>> I think that my concern at the moment is limits.  If I work most of 
>>>> my programming (for I never want to program to make money, that's 
>>>> the administrator in me), will I eventually hit a wall and find 
>>>> that I want to do something but can't?  Like for instance, who's 
>>>> ever seen a web conferencing software written based off the .net framework?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:55 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>>
>>>> It's interesting C++ is marginalized as a low level language 
>>>> because it inherited from C the support for such things as register 
>>>> declarations and pointers that can go out of bounds (which can be 
>>>> useful in some
>>>> contexts) and even asm for getting directly to the assembly level.
>>>> But it is a also full of all the elaborate high level constructs 
>>>> that get messy for those who mix the high and low level stuff 
>>>> without knowing what they are doing.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm glad there have been 
>>>> spinoff languages that cater to different types of applications.
>>>> Getting everyone to learn a single unified standard would be 
>>>> difficult and perhaps wouldn't work.
>>>> I say that because you don't know what future technologies will 
>>>> come along and put pressure on the language lawyers to add new 
>>>> features to the super language, and perhaps some of these would 
>>>> clash -- or and mess up the definition and implementation of the super 
>>>> language.
>>>> I speak from experience as I worked as a compiler and tool 
>>>> developer for
>>>> C++ during the years C++ was evolving.  The language kept changing 
>>>> C++ so we
>>>> had to take a messy prototype from research and scramble to make 
>>>> modifications in design to fix inevitable bugs.  It was interesting 
>>>> work that I felt privileged to do, but That was a long time ago, 
>>>> and things have moved on.
>>>> I am using java lately, and indeed it is a different paradigm from C++.
>>>>
>>>> So my vote is to keep the languages separate.
>>>> Happy hacking.
>>>> --le
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Katherine Moss"<Katherine.Moss@xxxxxxxxxx> 
>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You see, that's what I don't get.  If they say (Microsoft, and 
>>>> others), that C# is just as capable as C++ for the lower level 
>>>> stuff if you learn the unsafe code marking technique in it, then 
>>>> why doesn't C# support all things like MAPI, lower-level device 
>>>> drivers, IIS ISAPI filters and extensions, and all other things 
>>>> that it is clearly stated require C++?  I mean, if we have 
>>>> Microsoft and other C# sites telling us that C# can do the same 
>>>> things, it just seems a bit silly to have requirements in another 
>>>> language for some things, right?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Littlefield, Tyler
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:11 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>>
>>>> c++ is great for lower level. And if you -need- to make calls to
>>>> c++ win32
>>>> (which everything just sort of wraps around anyway), you can use 
>>>> pinvoke
>>>> (pinvoke.net)
>>>> On 7/22/2011 1:45 PM, Katherine Moss wrote:
>>>>> I think it's just my feeling that the CLR has been around long 
>>>>> enough that it should be ahead of everything else in the Windows 
>>>>> OS and environment, and that lower-level languages like C++ should 
>>>>> not have to be a requirement for certain things.  Take MAPI, for 
>>>>> instance.  I was reading something about that as I was briefly 
>>>>> interested in trying to help when I get good enough on the 
>>>>> existing projects there to make open source Outlook Extensions to 
>>>>> make it's groupware features not be reliant upon Exchange server 
>>>>> to make them work.  Take HMailServer for instance.  The source is 
>>>>> no longer open (though the program is still free thankfully for 
>>>>> whatever reason), but add-ins are aloud, so why not give it some 
>>>>> groupware abilities and have it be another alternative to Exchange 
>>>>> server's masivity?
>>>>> But my point is here that if microsoft seems to be pushing .net, 
>>>>> then why are they still requiring certain languages for certain 
>>>>> things?  You see, this is one of the hopeful things I want to see 
>>>>> with Windows 8, that .net and Win32 will be peers rather than 
>>>>> separate entities in which they can only cooperate using interop.
>>>>> And talk about interop, Microsoft had intentionally made MAPI 
>>>>> unsupportive of interop.  Why, I wonder?
>>>>> Sounds like a nasty marketing tactic.  I can't prove that, but 
>>>>> that was more of an inferred thing when reading about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
>>>>> Littlefield, Tyler
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:16 PM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>>>
>>>>> You've explained what enhancement (since there is only 1) in terms 
>>>>> of memory management, but you were throwing around "benafits of 
>>>>> the CLR,"
>>>>> when we were talking about native c++, and thus the CLR wouldn't 
>>>>> really matter there. Oppinions are nice, but what you give 
>>>>> generally is misguided information because you've developed some 
>>>>> overbearing urge toward .net without any actual reasoning behind 
>>>>> it beyond "x says it's awesome, it must be awesome."
>>>>> On 7/22/2011 9:18 AM, Katherine Moss wrote:
>>>>>> In terms of facts though, I mean, what facts?  Is not 
>>>>>> programming, which language is better, which language offers 
>>>>>> enhancements for which user, isn't that always going to be an 
>>>>>> opinion?  I mean, I've been asked before to state facts regarding 
>>>>>> the .net framework's superiority over other programming models.  
>>>>>> How in the world am I supposed to do that if the only real stuff 
>>>>>> out there saying that it's better are opinions anyway?
>>>>>> So anything I state that's better than other models, isn't that 
>>>>>> an opinion?  And just restating what Microsoft has to say 
>>>>>> regarding their own technology, that's kind of counterproductive, isn't 
>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken 
>>>>>> Perry
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 11:15 AM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know it's hard to say anything sometimes but say it anyway and 
>>>>>> just ignore the rif raf.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>> Katherine Moss
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:19 AM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was going to say that too, but my presence tends to poison the 
>>>>>> network, so I didn't say anything LOL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
>>>>>> Littlefield, Tyler
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 9:55 AM
>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Need tutorials of VB6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recommend you don't learn vb6 if this is your first language, 
>>>>>> but learn something that will help you and is more up-to-date. 
>>>>>> like vb.net.
>>>>>> On 7/22/2011 7:42 AM, Chetan Sharma wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Friends,
>>>>>>> I'm learning Visual Basic 6, There are number of tutorials 
>>>>>>> available on the Internet, it is hard for me to choose good one.
>>>>>>> Can you help me to find good one?
>>>>>>> Because, there are many VB experts on the list and they know 
>>>>>>> which one is better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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