RE: NVDA and Eloquence

Does distributing little applications via a web site count as high visibility 
and potential for trouble to arise?  Like I want to be able to go on CodePlex 
and create a bunch of things open source, and I'm just confused as to which 
license overrides which one.  It's hard trying to keep track of them, so if I'm 
not selling my stuff, why should MS care because they give dreamspark as an 
outlet for learners like me.  Don't they expect you to show off?

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:08 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: NVDA and Eloquence

You'll find that most of your compliance with their terms would be hard to 
enforce until you have to start documenting things related to them. 
So if whatever you're doing turned into a commercial endeavor or became high 
visibility in some other way, then they'd be able to ensure you're abiding by 
the TOS. Up until that point they probably won't know and probably won't care.
On 8/24/2011 9:51 AM, Katherine Moss wrote:
> That's why I wonder about the seriousness of license agreements because it 
> almost seems as if licenses are just there to scare you.  For instance, I 
> have a Dreamspark license, and the way microsoft words it, it almost seems as 
> if they have ways to figure out where you're putting your visual studio 
> programs and creations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:40 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: NVDA and Eloquence
>
>
> Well I doubt it they would first have to catcht them and since most people 
> don't give access to either of them to your computer it would be hard for 
> them to catch you.
>
> ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal 
> Mazrui
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:02 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: Alex Hall
> Subject: Re: NVDA and Eloquence
>
> Does anyone know whether either Freedom Scientific or Nuance have threatened 
> legal action if  a blind individual uses NVDA with Eloquence?
>
> Jamal
>
>
> On 8/24/2011 8:16 AM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
>> Thanks, Alex. Since posting my previous message on this topic, 
>> someone sent me the following link to a blog post on the NVDA site:
>>
>> http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDAAndEloquenceSituation
>>
>> I am still interested in further discussion if anyone has additional 
>> information or perspective.
>>
>> Jamal
>>
>>
>> On 8/24/2011 7:57 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
>>> My understanding is that it is not illegal. The illegal part is the 
>>> step many take to accomplish it, loading an illegal dll to provide 
>>> Eloquence speech. This dll is from the makers of Eloquence, but is 
>>> passed around the internet for free, even though the makers should 
>>> be getting their royalty for every time it is used.
>>> In fact, there is a survey by NVDA makers to determine interest in 
>>> providing Eloquence for NVDA (at a cost). Of course, that would be 
>>> perfectly legal, since NV Access would pay for the distribution 
>>> rights, then recoop the cost from users' paying the one-time fee for 
>>> Eloquence under their copy of NVDA.
>>>
>>> On 8/24/11, Jamal Mazrui<empower@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>> I am trying to understand the legal issues around use of NVDA with 
>>>> the Eloquence speech installed with JAWS. I have heard that it is 
>>>> technically easy to make this work, thereby substantially improving 
>>>> the NVDA experience. On the blind-mozilla list, however, it was 
>>>> stated that this is absolutely illegal to do, and even discussion 
>>>> of the topic was prohibited on the list. I did not realize this was 
>>>> such a controversial topic, but trust that we can at least discuss 
>>>> it here, being careful as appropriate not to encourage particular actions.
>>>>
>>>> As I think we know, just because a company says that some activity 
>>>> is an impermissible use of software does not make it so. For 
>>>> example, I have heard of the "Jailbreak" issue with the iPhone, and 
>>>> that this has been deemed legal by an authoritative body, despite 
>>>> initial protests by a company. Am I understanding that right?
>>>>
>>>> So, I am interested in any official statement that asserts the 
>>>> illegality of using Eloquence with NVDA. Can someone point me to a 
>>>> web page?
>>>>
>>>> Please understand that I am not encouraging such activity, 
>>>> especially since my knowledge of the topic is limited at present. I 
>>>> do think, however, that if people are being told that something is 
>>>> absolutely illegal that they deserve some kind of authoritative 
>>>> reference for that assertion, given the corresponding implication 
>>>> that one would be a criminal to do so.
>>>>
>>>> Jamal
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