RE: Maybe I'm Not Such An Old Dog

  • From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:09:55 -0400

Hi Catherine,
Maybe there's some history this old dog could impart to you about this whole 
thing. 

Way back, somewhere the dawn of time, there was no such thing as tabbed 
interfaces. In their infinite wisdom, the W3C people got together with some 
cranky people with disabilities and decided that it was a bad idea to open web 
pages in a new browser session. At that time, assistive technology didn't alert 
the user that a new browser window was opening, and it was very slow to pop 
open a whole new browser session. Also back then, pages were mostly static. 
That was 1999.

Now, pages are very dynamic. Sometimes screen readers have a hard time telling 
where to come back to when you press the Back button. But if you open a new 
tab, nothing is disturbed on the original page. And screen readers reliably 
tell you if you have opened a new tab. Besides all that, it's much faster to 
open a new tab than it is to open a whole new browser. Furthermore, we have 
faster computers now, and faster software. 

Unfortunately, we still have cranky people with disabilities who hate change, 
and as we all know, the only thing that doesn't change is change. 

And on this e-mail list, we have old dogs who just can't resist gnawing on a 
bone that probably should have been buried long ago.

Jim



-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 12:55 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Maybe I'm Not Such An Old Dog

Yeah but who cares because this happens to be a very good thread.  I like the 
idea of browser debates.  And by the way, I've never considered tabs to be an 
accessibility problem.  Rather, in fact, I think that when you're reading an 
article, and the article links you to something that's external, then the link 
should open automatically in a new tab so that you do not lose your place when 
closing it, and that should be added officially into the WAI standard.  

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 12:40 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Maybe I'm Not Such An Old Dog

Hi,
I have a knack for starting long, winding threads.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Trouble
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:52 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Maybe I'm Not Such An Old Dog

With jaws you do have to watch how many tabs you have set for home tabs. I had 
5 and 2 of them had advertisements. Only the one page made for the blind 
crashed jaws. Not sure if it was bad coding or just bad ad, but it would crash 
it all.
If you want a new window with a link just do a shift+ enter.

At 09:21 AM 7/20/2011, you wrote:
>What? Can old dogs learn new tricks?
>No, you are not too much of an old dog Jim. You are right, tabs makes 
>browsing many pages simultaneously a breeze especially if you have a 
>fast machine. I've read that with Safari one can have the default link 
>action be to open in a new tab and not a new window -- is the same 
>possible for FF? I always forget those shortcuts then fall back to the 
>context menu button and select Open in New Tab, but I know there's a 
>faster way for this.
>
>Later
>
>On 7/20/2011 1:50 PM, Homme, James wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I know that popping open new browser windows is against accessibility 
>>guidelines, but I'm beginning to re-think my aversion to doing that, 
>>partly because I like the new way browsers open windows. I like tabs. 
>>I also like that when I return to the previous tab, I'm exactly where 
>>I left off reading. Recently, with more dynamic pages, it has become 
>>more and more unreliable to use the back button to get back to where I 
>>was. I'm even experimenting with opening links in a separate browser 
>>window on purpose. I'd still like to know, though, if a link is about 
>>to open in a separate window, even if it's for informational reasons. 
>>JAWS does a good job, though, of telling me that a new tab has opened.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jim Homme,
>>
>>Usability Services,
>>
>>Phone: 412-544-1810.
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>--
>Kerneels Roos
>Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
>Skype: cornelis.roos

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