RE: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
- From: Storm Dragon <stormdragon2976@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 08:49:45 -0400
Hi,
Well, the shortest answer is it is personal preference. But, expanding
on that a little, there are some advantages to both. Windows with any
Win screen reader, for example, still has better web navigation than
Linux with Orca. Orca is just slow with web pages. This is being
improved but is not there yet. Docs can be saved in formats viewable on
Windows computers. Email works well and you really don't have to worry
about opening attachments and things like in Windows. You don't have to
spend hours defragmenting, running virus scans, and running spyware
scans. Navigation in large directories can be a bit slow with Orca in
Linux. I actually found this to be a binnifit lol because it motivated
me to be more organized. Linux has an absolutely awesome command line.
It's not as hard to use as a lot of people think but it does take some
study at first. Really though it's just a matter of preference. I
started using Linux a few years ago and I love it. Other people have
tried it and gone back to Windows with all haste. Using the computer
should be fun, relaxing, and personalized. For me, Linux is pretty close
to perfection. Sure it has its flaws, but I don't see myself switching
back to Windows any time soon. I am not one of those people who redicule
Windows users though. Use what ever makes you happy.
Storm
--
Registered Linux user number 508465:
http://counter.li.org/
My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon:
http://www.stormdragon.us/
Get paid to read email:
http://is.gd/feRiB
On Mon, 2010-10-18 at 07:57 -0400, Homme, James wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm asking this because I'm not a gifted programmer. I am a gifted musician,
> so I know the difference. I've had to work very hard to learn what I know
> about programming, so computers still hold a lot of mystery for me.
>
> OK. Time for me to again get things all stirred up. If you are someone who
> just wants to browse the web, make documents and spreadsheets, use e-mail,
> and so on, and still get people who use Windows to read and write your
> documents, and read and write theirs, what is so great about Vinux. I mean,
> if you are not a hacker, and you just want to turn on your computer and have
> it work as well as your Windows machine works now, what is so great about all
> of this, religeous views aside?
>
> Jim Homme,
> Usability Services,
> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility here.
> Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Marang
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 1:24 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for
> Visually Impaired Coders?
>
> Most computers have a key to hold down while starting up that provides a
> list of devices to boot from. On my Dell computers, this is the F12 key.
> This will override the BIOS boot up sequence for that session. The top
> item, "Boot from HD" is selected. Pressing the Down Arrow once will select
> "Boot from CD/DVD". If a USB device is detected, it will be placed between
> the HD and CD options. So normally, holding down the F12 key for about 5
> seconds after turning on the computer, then pressing the Down Arrow key
> once, and pressing Enter will boot from the CD/DVD.
>
> If your BIOS has a password set, I would doubt if it would let you boot from
> CD and reformat the hard disk. I know there are Ubuntu tools to break
> unknown Windows passwords. I have them installed on my USB Rescue Flash
> drive. I do not think it handles BIOS passwords. I would do a Google
> search. I would not be surprised that there is a Ubuntu package out there
> to break BIOS passwords.
>
> Creating a USB Rescue Flash drive is easy. Download the Vinux 3.0 USB tool
> below and install the desired rescue packages. The third link, step 24, is
> an example of installing the common rescue packages. The 'chntpw' package
> is the Windows password tool. You can install other Ubuntu packages in the
> same manner.
>
> Vinux Virtual World download page:
> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/downloads
>
> USB creation tool direct link: (works from Windows)
> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk/lucid/Vinux-3.0-USB-Win.zip
>
> Create Vinux Rescue DVD including Image for Linux:
> http://wiki.vinuxvirtual.org.uk/index.php?title=Vinux_How-To_Page#Create_a_Vinux_Rescue_DVD_Which_Includes_Image_for_Linux
>
> Don Marang
>
> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any real
> substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am working
> on things that matter.
> Dean Kamen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 12:12 AM
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Low Risk Vinuxx; was Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for
> Visually Impaired Coders?
>
> > I have been tinkering with it using a live cd and I'm finding it quite
> > addictive. Wish someone would put together a live cd download of
> > vinux with emacs speak with Espeak as the desktop that comes up
> > instead of gnome. Be neat to try it out.
> >
> > While I'm wishing, I wish I could get this old pc I've got lying
> > around to boot up with it. My wife isn't very computer literate and I
> > can't get her to describe the bios methods for me that would let me
> > configure the thing to boot from cd. The PC has windows 98 on it and
> > died the death some years ago when it choked on a bios virus that did
> > nasty mean things to it. Now, it won't come up even with windows if
> > you don't put in a password at the bios prompt. Before the OS is even
> > launched. I don't know the password. There probably really isn't
> > one. Pity because it used to work great. It's got a 40 gig hard
> > drive and about 512 megs of ram. Vinux would run just fine on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Alex M
> >
> >
> > On 10/14/10, Don Marang <donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> Vinux has several low risk methods, besides using a live CD or DVD. From
> >> your favorite version of Windows, you can run Vinux in a VMware Player
> >> Virtual Machine (VM). You can download a preconfigured VM at:
> >> Vinux Virtual Edition -
> >> http://vinuxvirtual.org.uk
> >>
> >> For better performance, and as a great Rescue Device, I recommend
> >> checking
> >> out creating an USB Flash drive with persistance. The above site also
> >> has a
> >> Windows tool to create such a device.
> >>
> >>
> >> Don Marang
> >>
> >> There is just so much stuff in the world that, to me, is devoid of any
> >> real
> >> substance, value, and content that I just try to make sure that I am
> >> working
> >> on things that matter.
> >> Dean Kamen
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:33 PM
> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: RE: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>> If I would get an external hard drive, would that work, and is someone
> >>> willing to lose their hair in the act of trying to help me do this?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>> Jim Homme,
> >>> Usability Services,
> >>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
> >>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
> >>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
> >>> Hofstader
> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:02 PM
> >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
> >>> Coders?
> >>>
> >>> Hi Jim,
> >>>
> >>> Item 1: A few people on this list could help you install the VM based
> >>> Vinux on a Windows computer running VMWare Player. I'm probably not the
> >>> best source for this help (Sina knows it much better than I do) but we
> >>> could spend some time writing up the things you need to download to get
> >>> started and then maybe talking to you on the phone through the
> >>> installation process. A spare hard disk to house your virtual machines
> >>> might give you greater peace of mind knowing that your Vinux distro
> >>> won't
> >>> even know about your main hard drive and, therefore, cannot destroy your
> >>> valuable data.
> >>>
> >>> Item 2: I'm told that their is emacspeak for Windows but, right now, I
> >>> don't have Windows running on anything in my Cambridge home so I can't
> >>> find the download and try the installation to give you any useful help
> >>> on
> >>> getting emacspeak running on Windows.
> >>>
> >>> cdh
> >>> On Oct 14, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Homme, James wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Chris,
> >>>> I truly wish I were brave enough to install Vinux. Someday I'll grab a
> >>>> spare machine and give it a try. Does Emacs Speak happen to work on
> >>>> Windows?
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim Homme,
> >>>> Usability Services,
> >>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
> >>>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
> >>>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
> >>>> Hofstader
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:27 AM
> >>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: Re: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired
> >>>> Coders?
> >>>>
> >>>> Using emacspeak is sort of like having a fully accessible OS but in a
> >>>> semi self voicing, semi screen reader environment. I like to use it for
> >>>> programming but it is the ultimate talking multi-tool.
> >>>>
> >>>> cdh
> >>>> On Oct 14, 2010, at 4:19 AM, <Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In answer to the subject field my answer is yes.
> >>>>> Just a couple of thoughts.
> >>>>> We have got to be careful about limiting our selves.
> >>>>> I'm in general agreement with what's been said however we have to face
> >>>>> facts. We live in a visual world. When I tell people I'm a computer
> >>>>> programmer almost the first question I get asked is how can you see
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> screen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also think the idea of an OS which doesn't have a GUI which would
> >>>>> avoid having to have a complex expensive screen reader on is a nice
> >>>>> idea
> >>>>> in theory but there are a couple of points which would make it in
> >>>>> practical. This OS would typically be for the VI market, which means
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> would be a specialist development. This means it would need to be open
> >>>>> source or proprietary for an access tech company. If you think screen
> >>>>> readers are complex they are nothing to a full operating system. This
> >>>>> would indicate that the price would be hefty Or not commercially
> >>>>> supported in the instance of an Open source OS.
> >>>>> The other major limitation on a new OS would be support in an
> >>>>> industrial
> >>>>> environment. For example the company I work for has a specific build
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> windows XP aloud on the network, it won't let you have other builds of
> >>>>> XP connected unless otherwise approved and just forget about non
> >>>>> windows
> >>>>> based OS, not a chance, this is not that unusual in a work
> >>>>> environment.
> >>>>> Also I would be afraid that it would button hole us and make it harder
> >>>>> for one of us to get a job as a software engineer. If you tern up for
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> job interview and you don't have any experience developing for the
> >>>>> platform your potential employer targets its another thing that marks
> >>>>> you down in comparison to anyone else going for the job.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The other worry is if a blind developer had no GUI development skills
> >>>>> at
> >>>>> all. As has been said on this thread for a sighted person to put
> >>>>> together a gui its pretty quick so its a normal thing a sighted
> >>>>> developer can do.
> >>>>> I'd like to think that I'm someone who will give almost anything ago
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> try not to let the fact I can't see a screen make a difference to the
> >>>>> work I do.
> >>>>> With this philosophy in mind there are 2 questions I was asked that a
> >>>>> normal developer wouldn't have been in the job interview which
> >>>>> resulted
> >>>>> in me getting the job I've been doing for the last 5 and a half years.
> >>>>> 1. How would you be able to use the graphical UML design tools and
> >>>>> show
> >>>>> software design in a similar way to other developers?
> >>>>> 2. Can and how do you develop GUI's.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Write away there you can see the interviewer seeing problems that need
> >>>>> to be answered to find out if I can do the job. I know some people who
> >>>>> would have thought it improper to ask these questions but in my mind
> >>>>> if
> >>>>> they hadn't been asked there would have still been a question mark
> >>>>> next
> >>>>> to me when it came down to selecting the successful candidate.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've been told since that it was the "I may not do it in the normal
> >>>>> way
> >>>>> but it will get done" attitude of the answers that I gave which swayed
> >>>>> the panel in my way as it showed my attitude to everything, not just
> >>>>> my
> >>>>> blindness.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If my answers would have been
> >>>>> 1. I don't do graphical design. Its pointless, I do everything in a
> >>>>> text
> >>>>> file.
> >>>>> 2. I don't do GUI's, other people are better at it than I am.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It shows a defeatist attitude, not something most employers are
> >>>>> looking
> >>>>> for.
> >>>>> Yes, sighted people can be quicker at both these particular software
> >>>>> skills but other things I bring to the table I could be better at than
> >>>>> others in the team, not because I'm blind but because I just am. A
> >>>>> team
> >>>>> is made up of individuals with varying skills.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lets not get away from the fact that the negative answers above do
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> an element of truth. If I had my way my design wouldn't be done in UML
> >>>>> and I wouldn't do GUI development but I don't work in a bubble.
> >>>>> Sighted
> >>>>> people review, approve and use software and designs that I've
> >>>>> generated
> >>>>> and as I said we live in a visual world.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyway, enough rambling from me.
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> Nick.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels
> >>>>> Roos
> >>>>> Sent: 13 October 2010 16:08
> >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: Is GUI Programming Worth While for Visually Impaired Coders?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This message was posted to a reply on the long thread about Oracle
> >>>>> accessibility concerns involving Java. I thought I'd post it again
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> a new subject, since it deviates from the original topic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can't agree more your this statement Jay. As much as all of us want
> >>>>> to create nice GUIs, it is really such such a battel for someone that
> >>>>> can't see properly, if you are honest with yourself. I would say that
> >>>>> the FB examples are indicative of this, since the FB concept is very
> >>>>> simple yet for a visually impaired person to build a GUI is a massive
> >>>>> task in all fairness.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I didn't catch the whole story with the recent critisism of the FB
> >>>>> examples, but I can understand why a professor for example would
> >>>>> ridicule having the logic and presentation code (GUI code) all in one
> >>>>> file. (or any other aspect of the FB stuff that servce the purpose of
> >>>>> aiding blind people) It's a poor design choice for anything but an
> >>>>> example, but then, that's exactly what the FB examples are -- tools to
> >>>>> show you simple GUI creation in various programming languages.
> >>>>> Personally I think it's great and I commend all the contributors. It's
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> service to the community, but sighted people will struggle to see it's
> >>>>> worth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We must understand, for a fully sighted person, building GUIs is
> >>>>> rediculously easy and straight forward. No matter what kind of
> >>>>> accessible GUI designer tools there might be in future, the playing
> >>>>> field will never be level when it comes to anything graphic. Yet there
> >>>>> is no reason for despair, since there are numerous other areas in
> >>>>> computer sciense and programming in particular where a blind person
> >>>>> could compete well and I'm speculating that there might even be areas
> >>>>> where having no or little sight might aid you!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One particular small project I worked on while studying at university
> >>>>> springs to mind. It was a little applet developed with AWT or Swing
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> saved your bookmarks in a tree structure. The professor was a gracious
> >>>>> man, and he gave us a nice score for the project, but he stepped in
> >>>>> after we did our presentation and basically told the class that we
> >>>>> really did spend much time on this and that we didn't just download it
> >>>>> from the net or something... He did this, I think, because our project
> >>>>> was fairly inferiour graphic wise compaired to the elaborate graphics
> >>>>> the other student's projects sported even though I spent hours and
> >>>>> hours
> >>>>> on the little GUI side of the software.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's heart breaking for me when I read how hard blind folks try and
> >>>>> make
> >>>>> appealing graphical interfaces, or when I read about the struggles
> >>>>> some
> >>>>> software causes blind guys. It's commendable to see how people cope
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> the worst of situations, but there are also better areas to focus on,,
> >>>>> areas where you'll be far more productive and make a better impact .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's a complex topic for me and there are much to say about it. What
> >>>>> I'm
> >>>>> wondering is if it is not a good time to review the way disabled
> >>>>> people
> >>>>> are trained up to believe that interaction with computers should
> >>>>> commence in the generally accepted form of having a "normal" or
> >>>>> sighted
> >>>>> OS with all highly graphical applications with a rediculously advanced
> >>>>> and complex and expensive screen reader stuck on top of it all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And then, on the other hand, how we can identify better software
> >>>>> development areas to focus on where blindness poses less of an
> >>>>> obsticle.
> >>>>> Also, how we can advance in those areas and properly promote ourselves
> >>>>> and our value to a software development shop developing for the
> >>>>> general
> >>>>> public or business where accessibility is of little concern. Myself
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> one have a little bit of a complex when think of all my years
> >>>>> experience
> >>>>> as a software developer and yet the difficulty with which I'm faced
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> when having to develop a GUI, and how someone with far less experience
> >>>>> than myself could code a GUI so much faster and better looking in less
> >>>>> time and with less effort.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My challenge to the list; let's draw up a specification of areas in
> >>>>> programming and computer science where visually impaired people can
> >>>>> excell at in the modern age where graphics does play such a ever
> >>>>> increasingly important part.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Armed with such a specification we'll be in the right position to
> >>>>> start
> >>>>> and focus efforts on training ourselves up in those areas and then
> >>>>> sharing knowledge and awareness so that a wel trained blind programmer
> >>>>> (in the identified fields) could approach any development house with
> >>>>> confidence of his / her abilities and value she / he will add to a
> >>>>> company.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kerneels
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 10/13/2010 12:31 AM, Jay Macarty wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would advise spending time on web development with java on the
> >>>>> server side. Either that or headless java development such as web
> >>>>> services. Both directions can allow a person to grow into a very
> >>>>> strong
> >>>>> java developer with very marketable skill sets without fighting the
> >>>>> constant battle of either swing accessibility or trying to gain skills
> >>>>> in an API, swt, which may have somewhat limited acceptence in a large
> >>>>> traditional java shop. Personally, I love swt; however, as a tech
> >>>>> lead,
> >>>>> I can't push it into a project here because it is not an accepted
> >>>>> technology by our enterprise architects.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homme, James"
> >>>>> <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 7:02 AM
> >>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
> >>>>> IMHO
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Jay,
> >>>>> Would you advise someone new to Java to spend more time on
> >>>>> Swing, SWT, or web?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jim
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jim Homme,
> >>>>> Usability Services,
> >>>>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
> >>>>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
> >>>>> accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and
> >>>>> accessibility
> >>>>> advice
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jay
> >>>>> Macarty
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:31 PM
> >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
> >>>>> IMHO
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Over the past couple of years, I have been involved in hiring
> >>>>> java
> >>>>> developers several times. One of the things we have had trouble
> >>>>> with is
> >>>>> finding people with swing experience. It seems that, while there
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> certainly a number of applications still using swing heavily, a
> >>>>> lot of java
> >>>>> development is moving away from swing based GUI interfaces to
> >>>>> using web
> >>>>> based front-ends. Perhaps, Oracle thinks that a declining
> >>>>> interest in using
> >>>>> swing as a UI means they don't need to spend as much effort on
> >>>>> swing
> >>>>> accessibility but that thought path can certainly leave those of
> >>>>> us who
> >>>>> still need access to heavily swing based apps in a spot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO"
> >>>>> <susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:susan.stanzel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 8:11 PM
> >>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
> >>>>> IMHO
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Listers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have not stepped into this until now. I would hope that
> >>>>> needing government
> >>>>> contracts in the United States would have some affect on all
> >>>>> this. I have
> >>>>> asked people about swing and I am told it isn't used very much
> >>>>> because there
> >>>>> is newer technology out there. I am not an experienced Java
> >>>>> programmer so
> >>>>> maybe the rest of you will know more than I do. I know we use
> >>>>> Struts at my
> >>>>> building for creation of web projects. If I have just made a
> >>>>> fool of myself,
> >>>>> it's not the first time and won't be the last. (grin).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Susie Stanzel
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The
> >>>>> Elf
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:08 PM
> >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
> >>>>> IMHO
> >>>>>
> >>>>> hey, this is my usual line, "beat them into submission" lol
> >>>>>
> >>>>> or hound,or pummel, or...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> elf
> >>>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
> >>>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
> >>>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
> >>>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
> >>>>> www.alacorncomputer.com
> >>>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
> >>>>> for blind computer users and programmers
> >>>>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:14 AM
> >>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration,
> >>>>> IMHO
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wow, it only took like 15 emails on the subject, but
> >>>>> finally the voice of
> >>>>> reason has made itself known.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ken, I completely agree. Now is the time to pressure
> >>>>> them into actually
> >>>>> not abandoning it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Take care,
> >>>>> Sina
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> >>>>> Of Ken Perry
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:10 AM
> >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious
> >>>>> consideration, IMHO
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If this is true then it's not time to tell people to
> >>>>> stay away. It's time
> >>>>> to get people to get active and start emailing and
> >>>>> calling them till they do support it. If we stay away
> >>>>> we lose what
> >>>>> accessibility was there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ken
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> >>>>> Of Storm Dragon
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:09 PM
> >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious
> >>>>> consideration, IMHO
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>> I would not doubt it for one second. They dropped the
> >>>>> ball on Linux
> >>>>> accessibility pretty much first thing when they took
> >>>>> over Sun.
> >>>>> It's probably a good idea, if you have influence over
> >>>>> software decisions,
> >>>>> to encourage companies, clients, and friends to stay far
> >>>>>
> >>>>> far away from Oracle and their software. I was even
> >>>>> going to get rid of
> >>>>> Open Office but fortunately the version used in Ubuntu
> >>>>> is a
> >>>>> fork so not subject to them. unless, that is, they
> >>>>> somehow manage to win
> >>>>> their evil attack on Google. If that happens, who knows
> >>>>> who
> >>>>> they will attack next. Keep your fingers crossed, and
> >>>>> maybe the open
> >>>>> source community will keep the Bridge going, Orca is
> >>>>> still
> >>>>> alive and well after all.
> >>>>> Storm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Registered Linux user number 508465:
> >>>>> http://counter.li.org/
> >>>>> My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon:
> >>>>> http://www.stormdragon.us/
> >>>>> Get yourself a Frostbox:
> >>>>> http://www.frostbitesystems.com/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 2010-10-09 at 08:15 +0530, prateek aggarwal
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> oh know,
> >>>>> i wish its just a rumor.
> >>>>> if its ever going to be true, i'll be so said.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> regards,
> >>>>> prateek agarwal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 10/9/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> <mailto:empower@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I heard from a good source today that Oracle has
> >>>>> decided to discontinue
> >>>>> support for the Java Access Bridge (and no
> >>>>> alternative is planned). I
> >>>>> would be glad to be convinced otherwise. If
> >>>>> anyone has information
> >>>>> regarding this topic, please share.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jamal
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your
> >>>>> settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are
> >>>>> intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are
> >>>>> addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended
> >>>>> recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this
> >>>>> e-mail without the author's prior permission. The views expressed in
> >>>>> this e-mail message do not necessarily represent the views of Highmark
> >>>>> Inc., its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Kerneels Roos
> >>>>> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
> >>>>> Skype: cornelis.roos
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Common Sense" is not "Common Practice" .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The Strawberry Jam Law:
> >>>>> The wider you spread it, the thinner it gets..."
> >>>>> -- from the Java Specialist Newsletter, from a book on consulting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________
> >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________
> >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>
> >>>> __________
> >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> __________
> >>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>
> >>> __________
> >>> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________
> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>
> >>
> > __________
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >
> >
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
Other related posts:
