RE: Java versus Python

  • From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 16:14:43 -0400

Hmm well I don't know about that the guy who wrote Mind craft is now what
over 65 million dollars in the good and he wrote it in Java.  I am not sure
I discount any language that gets the job done and I also develop games.

ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher
Coale
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 3:37 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Java versus Python

Yeah, I'm sure Java can get the job done; I just prefer not to use it. 
It's on the last of my list of languages I would use for a project 
(especially since I do game development).

On 6/19/2011 12:32 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
> Snicker I have my problems with Java as well but we code in what we must
and
> if you can't find a fault in a language you're not trying hard enough.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Coale
> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 2:35 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
>
> You may not be against Java, but I sure am! (just thought I'd throw that
> out there for the record)
>
> On 6/19/2011 11:03 AM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
>> Thanks. I'm not -against- Java, I was just trying to throw some valid
>> reasons into the conversation. Most of the points against python were
>> invalid and not true.
>> On 6/19/2011 11:58 AM, black ares wrote:
>>> my messages were written before your messages where you found these
>>> asserts.
>>> Until my messages you showed a very python oriented atitude and
>>> against java and other like this for no matter what args.
>>> But after I have seen your messages and I have understood that you
>>> can admit some times that python is not good for all.
>>> Very well you simply have proven that you are more than a begginer in
>>> this area.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
>>> <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:09 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The problem here is not that Ken and his team had or had not a good
>>>> planing session, but that Tilor aserts some things wich are not so
>>>> real.
>>>> What,
>>>> 1) That python shouldn't be used as the core of a system on a box
>>>> like the Icon with the specs it has.
>>>> 2) That python may not be the choice for -everything-
>>>> 3) That a -good- coder knows what language to use, and why?
>>>> What is "not so real," about that?
>>>> On 6/19/2011 1:59 AM, black ares wrote:
>>>>> Sure, but this don't minimise the drawbacks of python.
>>>>> And some things you discover after you've implemented part of the
>>>>> real system, when you realy put to work that language.
>>>>> The problem here is not that Ken and his team had or had not a good
>>>>> planing session, but that Tilor aserts some things wich are not so
>>>>> real.
>>>>> I agree that in a good planing session you might see how bad python
>>>>> works and choose another technology for a "performance critical"
>>>>> software.
>>>>> But sometimes the truth is hidden and you get excited because of
>>>>> the enthusiasm of the comunity around a language and you decide to
>>>>> give a try.
>>>>> Hearing Tiller I now might decide to do the next fifa 2012 in
>>>>> python because it is better than c++ or other language, I will get
>>>>> some productivity increase and you know, who want not to deliver
>>>>> earlier.
>>>>> Lucky me that I've tried some "open source" "free" languages and I
>>>>> decided that most of them are poorly implemented, targeted only to
>>>>> simple tasks like showing infos on a little html webpage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Coale"
>>>>> <ccoale427@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:05 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please don't say you "broke" Python, as you did not. What you mean
>>>>>> to say is that your development team broke your project. I'm
>>>>>> unsure if you are referring to the execution speed of Python or
>>>>>> the development time it took you to create applications; if you
>>>>>> are referring to the former, then I must say that you (and/or your
>>>>>> development team) did poor project planning. Did you not know that
>>>>>> Python tends to be an interpreted language? That's something to
>>>>>> consider when you are developing a performance-critical application.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the indentation issue -- why was this not considered before
>>>>>> the project started? Many people have no problems with the
>>>>>> indentations, though, admittedly, some do. This should have been
>>>>>> one of the things to consider during the planning stage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/18/2011 2:42 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> Sina I have told Tylor that I will not respond to anything he
>>>>>>> posts so this
>>>>>>> is pushing it to answer your post here but yes I have went as far
>>>>>>> as python
>>>>>>> can go and it broke.  I don't like mentioning it because python
>>>>>>> is a great
>>>>>>> language for many things. but yes our rather large python project
>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>> pretty much an accessible front end for Linux, word processor,
>>>>>>> web browser,
>>>>>>> media player, radio tuner, book reader, twitter application, rss
>>>>>>> reader,
>>>>>>> email, all wrote in python Just got to the point where python was
>>>>>>> slowing
>>>>>>> things down even know the major lifting was done with c++
>>>>>>> modules.  So while
>>>>>>> we could crank out more and more apps they got slower and
>>>>>>> slower.  So yes we
>>>>>>> took python where we thought it could go and it broke.  I already
>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>> once where a block of code looked right but was not for example
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> like this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if expression :
>>>>>>>      do something
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     do something
>>>>>>>     do something
>>>>>>>     do something
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now that looks right if you intended the whole 4 lines to be in
>>>>>>> the if
>>>>>>> statement but if you were blocking the three lines and they took the
>>>>>>> indentation which some editors do you might not notice you had it
>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>> same level as a blind coder.  This happened actually to a sighted
>>>>>>> coder and
>>>>>>> the code was in for a long time and I mean years before it was
>>>>>>> finally
>>>>>>> found.  Luckily it was not that important a bit of code but it
>>>>>>> took a blind
>>>>>>> guy and some pain staking looking to find the problem.  Granted
>>>>>>> this don't
>>>>>>> happen a lot but it does happen more than it does in languages
>>>>>>> that use true
>>>>>>> blocks of code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the typing of the language don't get me started you don't
>>>>>>> know how
>>>>>>> many times I  and others have pushed stuff from the web into a
>>>>>>> sqlite3 data
>>>>>>> base and taken it out and got nothing like we expected because of
>>>>>>> unicode
>>>>>>> and Ascii.  I still like python for quick stuff but give me a
>>>>>>> typed language
>>>>>>> any day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
>>>>>>> Bahram
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:39 PM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Java versus Python
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have, as has Ken more than me, and both of us have experienced the
>>>>>>> complete misery that is the lack of proper typing in
>>>>>>> multiperson development teams.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out of curiosity, have you? been in a multiple person development
>>>>>>> team, I
>>>>>>> mean, so that you can back up how well Python works?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>> Sina
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Littlefield,
>>>>>>> Tyler
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:48 AM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have you coded in python frequently enough to be able to back up the
>>>>>>> statement that coding in Python dies after big projects? I've
>>>>>>> added to
>>>>>>> some python projects and you can still code just as fast.
>>>>>>> On 6/18/2011 6:45 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
>>>>>>>> One reason we chose Java for BrailleBlaster is SWT. It really
>>>>>>>> works as a
>>>>>>>> cross-platform GUI builder. Once you get into a complex project the
>>>>>>>> advantages of being able to develop something quickly in Python
>>>>>>>> are much
>>>>>>>> less.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 03:22:52PM +0300, black ares wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In fact it isn't a matter of preference.
>>>>>>>>> Best trained profesionals in this area choose the platform and
>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>> best tailored to the project needs.
>>>>>>>>> So If I have a project that I can do better and quick in python
>>>>>>>>> than I
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> choose that langgage.
>>>>>>>>> If options are better in java I will choose it.
>>>>>>>>> Depends very much on the project requirements.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "David Tseng"<davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 5:15 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Java versus Python
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I personally find arguments about programming languages much
>>>>>>>>>> analogous
>>>>>>>>>> to those seen in politics.  Both sides have great points but
>>>>>>>>>> tend to
>>>>>>>>>> drive one another towards opposite extremes.  Some camps are
>>>>>>>>>> die hard
>>>>>>>>>> dynamic language practitioners while others stick to strongly
>>>>>>>>>> typed
>>>>>>>>>> code.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the
>>>>>>>>>> battle
>>>>>>>>>> historically.  Most of the industry writes in C-styled
>>>>>>>>>> languages like
>>>>>>>>>> C/C++, java, etc.  Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost.
>>>>>>>>>> Python,
>>>>>>>>>> as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to
>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>> code, is still largely a wrapper on C.  For those who want
>>>>>>>>>> absolute
>>>>>>>>>> performance, it's considered still an extra level of indirection
>>>>>>>>>> that's not worth the productivity gain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I love python and its free-form style and the amount of
>>>>>>>>>> progress you
>>>>>>>>>> can make using it.  Python excels at the rinse and repeat
>>>>>>>>>> (compile,
>>>>>>>>>> run, fix) style of coding.  The few seconds you need to compile a
>>>>>>>>>> C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in
>>>>>>>>>> python.
>>>>>>>>>> You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java,
>>>>>>>>>> but can
>>>>>>>>>> independently mix in functional aspects if you wish.  You can
>>>>>>>>>> just as
>>>>>>>>>> easily go OO if you want as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/17/11, Alex Hall<mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most
>>>>>>>>>>> situations. I
>>>>>>>>>>> would probably give up if the only option were php, since I
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>> hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy
>>>>>>>>>>> enough, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's ease of
>>>>>>>>>>> use and
>>>>>>>>>>> readability, plus you can create executables with it,
>>>>>>>>>>> something that
>>>>>>>>>>> is difficult in java. Some people don't like that python is
>>>>>>>>>>> loosely
>>>>>>>>>>> typed, but I prefer saying:
>>>>>>>>>>> name=raw_input("Enter your name: ")
>>>>>>>>>>> to, if memory serves:
>>>>>>>>>>> name=new String();
>>>>>>>>>>> in=new InputReader();
>>>>>>>>>>> name=in.readLine();
>>>>>>>>>>> or something along those lines.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've used both. I really like python because it comes on
>>>>>>>>>>>> most *nix
>>>>>>>>>>>> systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability and
>>>>>>> versatility.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to
>>>>>>>>>>>> me. That and
>>>>>>>>>>>> they seem to have some serious naming convention issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>>>>>>>> things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makes
>>>>>>>>>>>> more sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Python.
>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx makes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot more
>>>>>>> sense
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it is just as powerful, if not more. A command-line
>>>>>>>>>>>>> build system
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like ant can take most of the hassle out of working with Java
>>>>>>> classes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally, I prefer this to Eclipse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eclipse
>>>>>>> SWT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Apache Ant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>>>>>>> my website:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> my blog:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net/blog
>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: st8amnd127
>>>>>>>>>>>> My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>> Have a great day,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>>>>>>>>>> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Ty
>>>> my website:
>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>> my blog:
>>>> http://tds-solutions.net/blog
>>>> skype: st8amnd127
>>>> My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!
>>>>
>>>> __________
>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>
>>> __________
>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>
>>>
>>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at 
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at 
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

Other related posts:

  1. Home
  2. programmingblind
  3. Archive
  4. 06-2011