Re: Java versus Python

Thanks. I'm not -against- Java, I was just trying to throw some valid reasons into the conversation. Most of the points against python were invalid and not true.

On 6/19/2011 11:58 AM, black ares wrote:
my messages were written before your messages where you found these asserts. Until my messages you showed a very python oriented atitude and against java and other like this for no matter what args. But after I have seen your messages and I have understood that you can admit some times that python is not good for all. Very well you simply have proven that you are more than a begginer in this area.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python


>The problem here is not that Ken and his team had or had not a good
planing session, but that Tilor aserts some things wich are not so real.
What,
1) That python shouldn't be used as the core of a system on a box like the Icon with the specs it has.
2) That python may not be the choice for -everything-
3) That a -good- coder knows what language to use, and why?
What is "not so real," about that?
On 6/19/2011 1:59 AM, black ares wrote:
Sure, but this don't minimise the drawbacks of python.
And some things you discover after you've implemented part of the real system, when you realy put to work that language. The problem here is not that Ken and his team had or had not a good planing session, but that Tilor aserts some things wich are not so real. I agree that in a good planing session you might see how bad python works and choose another technology for a "performance critical" software. But sometimes the truth is hidden and you get excited because of the enthusiasm of the comunity around a language and you decide to give a try. Hearing Tiller I now might decide to do the next fifa 2012 in python because it is better than c++ or other language, I will get some productivity increase and you know, who want not to deliver earlier. Lucky me that I've tried some "open source" "free" languages and I decided that most of them are poorly implemented, targeted only to simple tasks like showing infos on a little html webpage.



----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Coale" <ccoale427@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python


Please don't say you "broke" Python, as you did not. What you mean to say is that your development team broke your project. I'm unsure if you are referring to the execution speed of Python or the development time it took you to create applications; if you are referring to the former, then I must say that you (and/or your development team) did poor project planning. Did you not know that Python tends to be an interpreted language? That's something to consider when you are developing a performance-critical application.

As for the indentation issue -- why was this not considered before the project started? Many people have no problems with the indentations, though, admittedly, some do. This should have been one of the things to consider during the planning stage.

On 6/18/2011 2:42 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
Sina I have told Tylor that I will not respond to anything he posts so this is pushing it to answer your post here but yes I have went as far as python can go and it broke. I don't like mentioning it because python is a great language for many things. but yes our rather large python project which is pretty much an accessible front end for Linux, word processor, web browser, media player, radio tuner, book reader, twitter application, rss reader, email, all wrote in python Just got to the point where python was slowing things down even know the major lifting was done with c++ modules. So while we could crank out more and more apps they got slower and slower. So yes we took python where we thought it could go and it broke. I already mentioned once where a block of code looked right but was not for example something
like this

if expression :
    do something

   do something
   do something
   do something

Now that looks right if you intended the whole 4 lines to be in the if
statement but if you were blocking the three lines and they took the
indentation which some editors do you might not notice you had it at the same level as a blind coder. This happened actually to a sighted coder and the code was in for a long time and I mean years before it was finally found. Luckily it was not that important a bit of code but it took a blind guy and some pain staking looking to find the problem. Granted this don't happen a lot but it does happen more than it does in languages that use true
blocks of code.

As for the typing of the language don't get me started you don't know how many times I and others have pushed stuff from the web into a sqlite3 data base and taken it out and got nothing like we expected because of unicode and Ascii. I still like python for quick stuff but give me a typed language
any day.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:39 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Java versus Python

I have, as has Ken more than me, and both of us have experienced the
complete misery that is the lack of proper typing in
multiperson development teams.

Out of curiosity, have you? been in a multiple person development team, I
mean, so that you can back up how well Python works?

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield,
Tyler
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:48 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Java versus Python

Have you coded in python frequently enough to be able to back up the
statement that coding in Python dies after big projects? I've added to
some python projects and you can still code just as fast.
On 6/18/2011 6:45 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
One reason we chose Java for BrailleBlaster is SWT. It really works as a
cross-platform GUI builder. Once you get into a complex project the
advantages of being able to develop something quickly in Python are much
less.

John

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 03:22:52PM +0300, black ares wrote:
In fact it isn't a matter of preference.
Best trained profesionals in this area choose the platform and technology
best tailored to the project needs.
So If I have a project that I can do better and quick in python than I
will
choose that langgage.
If options are better in java I will choose it.
Depends very much on the project requirements.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Tseng"<davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python


I personally find arguments about programming languages much analogous to those seen in politics. Both sides have great points but tend to drive one another towards opposite extremes. Some camps are die hard dynamic language practitioners while others stick to strongly typed
code.

I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the battle historically. Most of the industry writes in C-styled languages like C/C++, java, etc. Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost. Python, as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to actually code, is still largely a wrapper on C. For those who want absolute
performance, it's considered still an extra level of indirection
that's not worth the productivity gain.

I love python and its free-form style and the amount of progress you can make using it. Python excels at the rinse and repeat (compile,
run, fix) style of coding.  The few seconds you need to compile a
C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in python. You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java, but can independently mix in functional aspects if you wish. You can just as
easily go OO if you want as well.



On 6/17/11, Alex Hall<mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most situations. I would probably give up if the only option were php, since I really hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy enough, but I agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's ease of use and readability, plus you can create executables with it, something that is difficult in java. Some people don't like that python is loosely
typed, but I prefer saying:
name=raw_input("Enter your name: ")
to, if memory serves:
name=new String();
in=new InputReader();
name=in.readLine();
or something along those lines.

On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
I've used both. I really like python because it comes on most *nix
systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability and
versatility.
Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to me. That and they seem to have some serious naming convention issues. Sometimes things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makes more sense.
On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about Python.
Why
is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx makes a lot more
sense
and it is just as powerful, if not more. A command-line build system
like ant can take most of the hassle out of working with Java
classes.
personally, I prefer this to Eclipse.

BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6, Eclipse
SWT
and Apache Ant.

John

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Take care,
Ty
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http://tds-solutions.net/blog
skype: st8amnd127
My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

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Have a great day,
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mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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Take care,
Ty
my website:
http://tds-solutions.net
my blog:
http://tds-solutions.net/blog
skype: st8amnd127
My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

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Take care,
Ty
my website:
http://tds-solutions.net
my blog:
http://tds-solutions.net/blog
skype: st8amnd127
My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

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View the list's information and change your settings at http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

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