hmm... doesn't it print "my string" when you specify only the int argument???
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: RE: Java versus Python
No not dictionaries named variables. For example Def myfunc (stringArg="my string",intArg=1): Print "%d %s" % (intArg,StringArg) Then you can do myFunc(stringArg="blah") myFunc(intArg=5) myfunc("blah",9) So you get kind of a function overloading Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:25 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Java versus Python Hi Ken,Are you talking about dictionaries or something else? I tried to google thisand I'm unsure if I'm reading the right stuff. Thanks. Jim -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:27 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Java versus Python This is not true with python and named variables. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of black ares Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:21 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Java versus Python Another problem I've meet with weak typing is polymorphism.If I want a behavior for a int value and other behavior for a string value, I can not write same method with diferent arguments and different behaviors. I am left only with the optionto write two different methods and to do uglyif else statements.----- Original Message ----- From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: RE: Java versus PythonThere are two issues, just so we don't' conflate them. One is the issue of the grammar in question, and the second is the parser for this grammar. So, the grammar for java uses left/right brace for block level scoping, and the grammar for python uses indention level. Short humorous aside, everyone says indentation instead of indention, but isn't indentation what you actually do to someone's head in a fight, not to your code? Sorry, I love grammars, regardless of context, *smile*, pun intended.Ok, so if one were to simply say that missing a space is like forgetting abrace, then, everything else being equal, it would be a similar error; however, it isn't exactly the same thing. Spacing for indention purposes happens on a line by line basis, as opposed to the one time operation that is putting, or not putting, an opening/closing brace. Also, forgetting a closing brace leaves a block of code open, and forgetting a space instead closes a block. Ok, so now if we have some code, if I forget a closing brace, that's not fun, but it's at least pretty easy to detect because chances are that I'll open a method declaration or do something else that doesn't happen inside of a block. If I forget a space, i simply close the block, so a bug can stay there forever, because all that's happened is that I've simply closed it one line too soon, or maybe a few lines too soon ... so that code still runs, but maybe just not on the conditional I want, or maybe it overrides a value. In other words, I'm putting forth that forgetting a closing brace is actually more destructive than forgetting a space, but because of this, the parser quickly ends up finding something that is an illegal syntax error or just something at the semantic level thatdoesn't make sense, and so there's a much higher chance of you finding outabout it before you ever come to run your program even once. That, I hope, addresses the issue of grammars. Now, moving onto parsers. The parser for Python, I feel, and this is subjective, doesn't give as good feedback to the programmer as the java one does. The reason for this really isn't the python guys' fault, at least not always, and that's because of a lack of typing. Because of this, sometimes error messages are perceived as vague and not useful. In java, alternatively, the compiler knows exactly what its expecting, what would even make the code syntactically correct, and so not only can it give you feedback along the lines of an argument being of a wrong type, but tell you what it was thinking should go there instead. Anyways, just some thoughts. Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:25 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Java versus Python Hi,What would Java have done in a case like this? According to me, this wouldbe a logic error whether or not it had anything to dowith indentation. I would think that it would be very easy to miss a rightbrace at the end of a code block. This would especially be true since Java allows you to have a single statement without using a right brace. It could be that I am missing something here in my thinking. Jim -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 12:22 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: Java versus Python This is true while I won't get into the what language is better since Iwrite in too many in my job to even want to have an opinion people need to realize that miss placed spaces are nothing like context problems in other languages. If you miss place a block of spaced lines you don't just causean error in the code. In fact the code might run along happily with noerrors but the code won't do what you want. This is one of the down fallsof python. There was actually a bug in the Icon and Braille+ that has been out for years that we only just recently found because of this very fact. One of the sighted guys that works on the project even missed it because theblock of 10 lines of code just looked like it was supposed to be out thereon its own. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J. Boyer Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:38 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Java versus Python The mandatory indentation in Python means that a single misplaced whitespace can entirely destroy a program. This is not very robust. C programmers usually make sure their code is nicely indented by using a utility like the Gnu indent. I'm still looking for something similar for Java. Manual indentation is too error-prone. John On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 08:32:55PM -0600, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:Java uses it's indentation much like braces are used. It's not where things have to be in specific columns, but indentation sort of solves a couple problems. 1) It means that all blocks of code are denoted by a deeper indentation level than the block that branched it. 2) It also means that people usually stick to a nice style. I've seen a lot of different code, for example: while (bla) do_something(); while (bla) { do_something } while (bla) { do_something(); } Indentation can be a bit hard to get used to, but I personally like it quite a lot. On 6/17/2011 8:30 PM, John J. Boyer wrote: >The thing I dislike about Python is mandatory indentation. This seems >to me a throwback to the old days of assembly language and Cobol, >where things had to be in certain columns. I like the free-form >syntax of Java and C. > >John > >On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 07:15:55PM -0700, David Tseng wrote: >>I personally find arguments about programming languages much >>analogous to those seen in politics. Both sides have great points >>but tend to drive one another towards opposite extremes. Some camps >>are die hard dynamic language practitioners while others stick to >>strongly typed code. >> >>I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the battle >>historically. Most of the industry writes in C-styled languages >>like C/C++, java, etc. Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost. >>Python, as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to >>actually code, is still largely a wrapper on C. For those who want >>absolute performance, it's considered still an extra level of >>indirection that's not worth the productivity gain. >> >>I love python and its free-form style and the amount of progress you >>can make using it. Python excels at the rinse and repeat (compile, >>run, fix) style of coding. The few seconds you need to compile a >>C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in python. >>You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java, but >>can independently mix in functional aspects if you wish. You can >>just as easily go OO if you want as well. >> >> >> >>On 6/17/11, Alex Hall<mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most situations. >>>I would probably give up if the only option were php, since I >>>really hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy >>>enough, but I agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's >>>ease of use and readability, plus you can create executables with >>>it, something that is difficult in java. Some people don't like >>>that python is loosely typed, but I prefer saying: >>>name=raw_input("Enter your name: ") to, if memory serves: >>>name=new String(); >>>in=new InputReader(); >>>name=in.readLine(); >>>or something along those lines. >>> >>>On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>I've used both. I really like python because it comes on most *nix >>>>systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability andversatility.>>>>Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to me. That >>>>and they seem to have some serious naming convention issues. >>>>Sometimes things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makesmore sense.>>>>On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote: >>>>>There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about >>>>>Python. Why is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx >>>>>makes a lot more sense and it is just as powerful, if not more. A >>>>>command-line build system like ant can take most of the hassle out >>>>>ofworking with Java classes.>>>>>personally, I prefer this to Eclipse. >>>>> >>>>>BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6, >>>>>Eclipse SWT and Apache Ant. >>>>> >>>>>John >>>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>> >>>>Take care, >>>>Ty >>>>my website: >>>>http://tds-solutions.net >>>>my blog: >>>>http://tds-solutions.net/blog >>>>skype: st8amnd127 >>>>My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features! >>>> >>>>__________ >>>>View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- >>>Have a great day, >>>Alex (msg sent from GMail website) >>>mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View >>>the list's information and change your settings at >>>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >>__________ >>View the list's information and change your settings at >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind -- Take care, Ty my website: http://tds-solutions.net my blog: http://tds-solutions.net/blog skype: st8amnd127 My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features! __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- John J. 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