Re: Java versus Python

  • From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:17:56 +0300

there is even a dotnet extension for cobol, so cobol forever is returning.

----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python


yes, I can see it now, COBOL++, forcing OO support into COBOL... ugh!!!
*smile*
--le
----- Original Message ----- From: "Homme, James" <james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: Java versus Python


Hi,
You know, I think we should just all go back to Cobol and forget this
discussion.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher
Coale
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 2:35 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Java versus Python

You may not be against Java, but I sure am! (just thought I'd throw that
out there for the record)

On 6/19/2011 11:03 AM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
Thanks. I'm not -against- Java, I was just trying to throw some valid
reasons into the conversation. Most of the points against python were
invalid and not true.
On 6/19/2011 11:58 AM, black ares wrote:
my messages were written before your messages where you found these
asserts.
Until my messages you showed a very python oriented atitude and
against java and other like this for no matter what args.
But after I have seen your messages and I have understood that you
can admit some times that python is not good for all.
Very well you simply have proven that you are more than a begginer in
this area.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python


>The problem here is not that Ken and his team had or had not a good
planing session, but that Tilor aserts some things wich are not so
real.
What,
1) That python shouldn't be used as the core of a system on a box
like the Icon with the specs it has.
2) That python may not be the choice for -everything-
3) That a -good- coder knows what language to use, and why?
What is "not so real," about that?
On 6/19/2011 1:59 AM, black ares wrote:
Sure, but this don't minimise the drawbacks of python.
And some things you discover after you've implemented part of the
real system, when you realy put to work that language.
The problem here is not that Ken and his team had or had not a good
planing session, but that Tilor aserts some things wich are not so
real.
I agree that in a good planing session you might see how bad python
works and choose another technology for a "performance critical"
software.
But sometimes the truth is hidden and you get excited because of
the enthusiasm of the comunity around a language and you decide to
give a try.
Hearing Tiller I now might decide to do the next fifa 2012 in
python because it is better than c++ or other language, I will get
some productivity increase and you know, who want not to deliver
earlier.
Lucky me that I've tried some "open source" "free" languages and I
decided that most of them are poorly implemented, targeted only to
simple tasks like showing infos on a little html webpage.



----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Coale"
<ccoale427@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python


Please don't say you "broke" Python, as you did not. What you mean
to say is that your development team broke your project. I'm
unsure if you are referring to the execution speed of Python or
the development time it took you to create applications; if you
are referring to the former, then I must say that you (and/or your
development team) did poor project planning. Did you not know that
Python tends to be an interpreted language? That's something to
consider when you are developing a performance-critical application.

As for the indentation issue -- why was this not considered before
the project started? Many people have no problems with the
indentations, though, admittedly, some do. This should have been
one of the things to consider during the planning stage.

On 6/18/2011 2:42 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
Sina I have told Tylor that I will not respond to anything he
posts so this
is pushing it to answer your post here but yes I have went as far
as python
can go and it broke.  I don't like mentioning it because python
is a great
language for many things. but yes our rather large python project
which is
pretty much an accessible front end for Linux, word processor,
web browser,
media player, radio tuner, book reader, twitter application, rss
reader,
email, all wrote in python Just got to the point where python was
slowing
things down even know the major lifting was done with c++
modules.  So while
we could crank out more and more apps they got slower and
slower.  So yes we
took python where we thought it could go and it broke.  I already
mentioned
once where a block of code looked right but was not for example
something
like this

if expression :
    do something

   do something
   do something
   do something

Now that looks right if you intended the whole 4 lines to be in
the if
statement but if you were blocking the three lines and they took the
indentation which some editors do you might not notice you had it
at the
same level as a blind coder.  This happened actually to a sighted
coder and
the code was in for a long time and I mean years before it was
finally
found.  Luckily it was not that important a bit of code but it
took a blind
guy and some pain staking looking to find the problem.  Granted
this don't
happen a lot but it does happen more than it does in languages
that use true
blocks of code.

As for the typing of the language don't get me started you don't
know how
many times I  and others have pushed stuff from the web into a
sqlite3 data
base and taken it out and got nothing like we expected because of
unicode
and Ascii.  I still like python for quick stuff but give me a
typed language
any day.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
Bahram
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:39 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Java versus Python

I have, as has Ken more than me, and both of us have experienced the
complete misery that is the lack of proper typing in
multiperson development teams.

Out of curiosity, have you? been in a multiple person development
team, I
mean, so that you can back up how well Python works?

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Littlefield,
Tyler
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:48 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Java versus Python

Have you coded in python frequently enough to be able to back up the
statement that coding in Python dies after big projects? I've
added to
some python projects and you can still code just as fast.
On 6/18/2011 6:45 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
One reason we chose Java for BrailleBlaster is SWT. It really
works as a
cross-platform GUI builder. Once you get into a complex project the
advantages of being able to develop something quickly in Python
are much
less.

John

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 03:22:52PM +0300, black ares wrote:
In fact it isn't a matter of preference.
Best trained profesionals in this area choose the platform and
technology
best tailored to the project needs.
So If I have a project that I can do better and quick in python
than I
will
choose that langgage.
If options are better in java I will choose it.
Depends very much on the project requirements.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Tseng"<davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx>
To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: Java versus Python


I personally find arguments about programming languages much
analogous
to those seen in politics.  Both sides have great points but
tend to
drive one another towards opposite extremes.  Some camps are
die hard
dynamic language practitioners while others stick to strongly
typed
code.

I will say that strongly typed languages have kind of won the
battle
historically.  Most of the industry writes in C-styled
languages like
C/C++, java, etc.  Lisp, still beloved by many, kind of lost.
Python,
as many have shown, works wonderfully and frees up coders to
actually
code, is still largely a wrapper on C.  For those who want
absolute
performance, it's considered still an extra level of indirection
that's not worth the productivity gain.

I love python and its free-form style and the amount of
progress you
can make using it.  Python excels at the rinse and repeat
(compile,
run, fix) style of coding.  The few seconds you need to compile a
C-styled language and run, you're already fixing the bug in
python.
You're not babied into writing object-oriented code ala java,
but can
independently mix in functional aspects if you wish.  You can
just as
easily go OO if you want as well.



On 6/17/11, Alex Hall<mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
Programming is certainly a matter of preference in most
situations. I
would probably give up if the only option were php, since I
really
hate that language (no offense to anyone). Java is easy
enough, but I
agree that it feels bulky at times. I like Python's ease of
use and
readability, plus you can create executables with it,
something that
is difficult in java. Some people don't like that python is
loosely
typed, but I prefer saying:
name=raw_input("Enter your name: ")
to, if memory serves:
name=new String();
in=new InputReader();
name=in.readLine();
or something along those lines.

On 6/17/11, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
I've used both. I really like python because it comes on
most *nix
systems. I also like Python because of it's flexability and
versatility.
Java is nice enough, but it feels big bulky and clunky to
me. That and
they seem to have some serious naming convention issues.
Sometimes
things are capitalized, sometimes they're not--.net makes
more sense.
On 6/17/2011 6:49 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
There has been a lot of discussion on the list lately about
Python.
Why
is that?Personally i much prefer Java. Its syntx makes a
lot more
sense
and it is just as powerful, if not more. A command-line
build system
like ant can take most of the hassle out of working with Java
classes.
personally, I prefer this to Eclipse.

BrailleBlaster is written in Java. I am using openjdk-1.6,
Eclipse
SWT
and Apache Ant.

John

--

Take care,
Ty
my website:
http://tds-solutions.net
my blog:
http://tds-solutions.net/blog
skype: st8amnd127
My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

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--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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--

Take care,
Ty
my website:
http://tds-solutions.net
my blog:
http://tds-solutions.net/blog
skype: st8amnd127
My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

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