RE: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.

And jees, Rick, look at his email address!  That's fishy  right there.  One
who should get knocked off the list.  Who moderates this thing, and I'll be
sure to let them know off list.  

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 5:59 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.

Hi Chris: I disagree. That is not only illegal but dishonest. Can I ever 
invite you over to my house to meet my family? I have a Daughter, my 
financial papers are in a cabnet and I have valuables around the house. No, 
I think me and my family would be better off not associating with someone 
like you and your ilk.
It is not easy trying to be a good man but it is what earns respect and 
trust. I hope you never need a job from any Government Agency represented by

folks on this list or any who are working in the Public Sector. Oh ya, I 
remember postings from someone in one of the Attorney Generals Office, hope 
you are not in their jurisdiction.
There is another fellow who works in another Government agency who might 
find this post of interest who works with Disability employment and might 
take offense at your attitude as it reflects on other blind folks.
Even the List Manager might not like your pushing illegal activities on this

list.
Perhaps they might just drop a line to your boss or your school, or, perhaps

pay your friends a visit.
Rick USA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.


> As we are all involved in "lifelong learning," I contend that we all 
> qualify for the student discounted version of all software. So, go to ebay

> and find any of a number of resellers who charge the student rate and be 
> done with it. If you disagree with this sort of behavior, come over to the

> FLOSS world where we respect your freedom as hackers to have all of the 
> tools you will ever need and have the source code so you can, if you want,

> improve them or learn from them or just have fun changing them around for 
> experimental purposes. We've loads of programming and development  tools 
> and a community to help you learn and support the whole thing. There's no 
> ethical quandary over price, copying, hacking or doing anything you like 
> with our programs - you are free to do whatever you like and not need to 
> deal with ugly licenses owned by Microsoft with which you must agree or 
> you can't even install their programs.
>
> cdh
>
>
>
> On 07/29/2010 05:26 AM, RicksPlace wrote:
>> Hi Alex and Ken: This discussion was hashed out about 5 years ago when 
>> Ken, Will Pearson, Jamal and others were first planning the JAWS Scripts.

>> 5 years later Ken is pretty much the sole Manager, cook and bottle washer

>> for the JAWS Scripts. The VS 2010 costs something like $700 for that one 
>> package and it changes every couple years so it is pretty expensive for 
>> anyone not employed by a company or institution where it is provided free

>> to the programmer. .. Perhaps WindowEyes will continue to work pretty 
>> well out of the box withVS when they implement UIA and the new Web Hooks.

>> Also, their COM interface might offer a good platform for making VS more 
>> accessible. The PlugIn idea Ken mentioned should work very well indeed. 
>> Problem there is the development of such a PlugIn would require having 
>> the expensive version of VS and it would not work with the free version 
>> which most folks use when learning to program in one of the Visual 
>> Languages as you have seen on list over the past few months.
>> Rick USA.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Midence" 
>> <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 3:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting 
>> divorced.
>>
>>
>> Hi, Ken,
>>
>> It's a bit of a conundrum.  The free version is buggy and inaccessible
>> so, we are reluctant to use it.  The paid version is well, ...
>> expensive.  Noone will want to shell out money for the paid version of
>> a free software they couldn't access because of the fear of buying
>> something they won't be able ot use.  The ideal thing would be for
>> someone who is enrolled in a college or university and thus able to
>> download the full version for free to have a nice, thorough lok at it,
>> script it and then share or sell the scripts.  I'd pay for scripts if
>> I was sure they would work.
>>
>> Alex M
>>
>> On 7/28/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> I think its fine with Jaws as long as you use the scripts.  The problem 
>>> is
>>> we are not even taking advantage of half of what visual studio allows
>>> because we have one set of scripts for the free version and the pay.  If

>>> we
>>> made a version of scripts for the pay version that has automation we 
>>> could
>>> access everything.  In fact they have made it so accessible if someone 
>>> was
>>> to sit down they could re write the entire interface using the API's 
>>> they
>>> have.  It's not that it's not accessible it's that the current IDE is 
>>> not
>>> designed for blind in mind but you see Microsoft has given us the power 
>>> to
>>> make it both usable and accessible..
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas 
>>> Stefik
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:20 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting 
>>> divorced.
>>>
>>> My research team just finished some usability testing with blind
>>> children using visual studio 2010 and JAWS 11. The students were able
>>> to use it to complete simple problems, but VS 2010 has a pretty large
>>> laundry list of accessibility problems, in my opinion.
>>>
>>> Stefik
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Katherine Moss
>>> <plymouthroamer285@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> I don't see how version 2010 is inaccessible though. I was on my 
>>>> desktop
>>> at
>>>> home and I was placing buttons on a winform app as well as setting 
>>>> their
>>>> properties correctly.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:30 PM
>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting
>>> divorced.
>>>>
>>>> VS 2005 and 2008 are both made accessible with the jaws scripts and
>>>> information available at my grab bag site (URL under my name)
>>>>
>>>> and/or with information and/or tools available at non visual
>>> development.org
>>>> www.NonvisualDevelopment.org
>>>>
>>>> and has been for years
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>> inthane
>>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>>>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>>>> for blind computer users and programmers
>>>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bill Gallik" <BillGallik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:22 AM
>>>> Subject: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting 
>>>> divorced.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The last time I attempted to teach myself C++ in the Visual Studio SDE

>>>>> I
>>>>> found it basically inaccessible. Has there been a significant
>>> progression
>>>>
>>>>> toward accessibility in the Visual Studio environment? It would seem,
>>>>> judging from all the respondants to this thread -- that Visual Studio 
>>>>> has
>>>>> indeed become more screen reader friendly. And, if so, which 
>>>>> version(s)?
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Holland's Person, Bill
>>>>> E-Mail: BillGallik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> - The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the 
>>>>> cheese!
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>
>>>>
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