Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.
- From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:18:51 -0500
Hi, rick,
Microsoft lets people who are students download the full, expensive
version for free as long as they can prove they are a college student.
I'm sure there are other stipulations but, what I meant was that if
there's a skilled jaws scripter out there who is enrolled in a college
or university, that person could download and install the full 700
dollar version of visual studio for free and script it if such a thing
is possible. I'm about to enroll in some college classes myself but I
don't know the jaws scripting language since I'm pretty fiercely
mainstream and therefore decided that something like c++ and python or
perl would be better to start my programming with than an obscure
single-application language. I may, however, reconsider python or
perl as my first scripting languages and start on jaws scripting after
I'm comfortable enough in c++ to shift my focus a bit to include
another language in which case, I'd be more than happy to script
visual studio 2010 but that's not in the near future as I am learning
this language part time and my next couple of classes aren't going to
be computer science ones. Ah, well, c'est la vie.
Regards,
Alex M
On 7/29/10, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Alex and Ken: This discussion was hashed out about 5 years ago when Ken,
> Will Pearson, Jamal and others were first planning the JAWS Scripts. 5 years
> later Ken is pretty much the sole Manager, cook and bottle washer for the
> JAWS Scripts. The VS 2010 costs something like $700 for that one package and
> it changes every couple years so it is pretty expensive for anyone not
> employed by a company or institution where it is provided free to the
> programmer. .. Perhaps WindowEyes will continue to work pretty well out of
> the box withVS when they implement UIA and the new Web Hooks. Also, their
> COM interface might offer a good platform for making VS more accessible. The
> PlugIn idea Ken mentioned should work very well indeed. Problem there is the
> development of such a PlugIn would require having the expensive version of
> VS and it would not work with the free version which most folks use when
> learning to program in one of the Visual Languages as you have seen on list
> over the past few months.
> Rick USA.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 3:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.
>
>
> Hi, Ken,
>
> It's a bit of a conundrum. The free version is buggy and inaccessible
> so, we are reluctant to use it. The paid version is well, ...
> expensive. Noone will want to shell out money for the paid version of
> a free software they couldn't access because of the fear of buying
> something they won't be able ot use. The ideal thing would be for
> someone who is enrolled in a college or university and thus able to
> download the full version for free to have a nice, thorough lok at it,
> script it and then share or sell the scripts. I'd pay for scripts if
> I was sure they would work.
>
> Alex M
>
> On 7/28/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I think its fine with Jaws as long as you use the scripts. The problem is
>> we are not even taking advantage of half of what visual studio allows
>> because we have one set of scripts for the free version and the pay. If
>> we
>> made a version of scripts for the pay version that has automation we could
>> access everything. In fact they have made it so accessible if someone was
>> to sit down they could re write the entire interface using the API's they
>> have. It's not that it's not accessible it's that the current IDE is not
>> designed for blind in mind but you see Microsoft has given us the power to
>> make it both usable and accessible..
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas Stefik
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:20 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting
>> divorced.
>>
>> My research team just finished some usability testing with blind
>> children using visual studio 2010 and JAWS 11. The students were able
>> to use it to complete simple problems, but VS 2010 has a pretty large
>> laundry list of accessibility problems, in my opinion.
>>
>> Stefik
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Katherine Moss
>> <plymouthroamer285@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> I don't see how version 2010 is inaccessible though. I was on my desktop
>> at
>>> home and I was placing buttons on a winform app as well as setting their
>>> properties correctly.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:30 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting
>> divorced.
>>>
>>> VS 2005 and 2008 are both made accessible with the jaws scripts and
>>> information available at my grab bag site (URL under my name)
>>>
>>> and/or with information and/or tools available at non visual
>> development.org
>>> www.NonvisualDevelopment.org
>>>
>>> and has been for years
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>> inthane
>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>>> for blind computer users and programmers
>>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bill Gallik" <BillGallik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:22 AM
>>> Subject: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The last time I attempted to teach myself C++ in the Visual Studio SDE I
>>>> found it basically inaccessible. Has there been a significant
>> progression
>>>
>>>> toward accessibility in the Visual Studio environment? It would seem,
>>>> judging from all the respondants to this thread -- that Visual Studio
>>>> has
>>>> indeed become more screen reader friendly. And, if so, which version(s)?
>>>> ----
>>>> Holland's Person, Bill
>>>> E-Mail: BillGallik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> - The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
>>>> __________
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