RE: Indentation Griping...

  • From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:21:54 -0500


Well let me just tell you this much.  It is a linux based machine and the
whole user interface is in Python.  With your knowledge of Python you could
make that happen in less than a week if it didn't already exist on the
device.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nick Stockton
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:42 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Indentation Griping...

Hey Ken, I was just wondering if you might know if the Braille plus supports

other keyboard layouts besides QWERTY for the docking station or external 
keyboard?  I'm a Dvorak user so if I ever got one it would have to support 
the Dvorak keyboard layout.

Nick Stockton
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:35 PM
Subject: RE: Indentation Griping...


>
>
> Sorry we have a beta in process so only the beta testers get that info. 
> It
> should be out Jan 7 though and its one step on the way to newer and cooler
> stuff.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:02 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Indentation Griping...
>
> interesting. What apps are you working on at APH? or can't you say?
> Just curious.
> Happy hacking.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:13 PM
> Subject: RE: Indentation Griping...
>
>
>
> In Teddy's defense I was a self employed programmer before I took the job 
> at
> APH.  I didn't feel like learning python fully because  I had heard on 
> this
> list that the spacing was bad news.  I had no one to worry about I could
> code in anything I liked and I picked c and c++ for almost everything not
> counting the few things I wrote in VB and c#.
>
> As soon as I got the job with APH though I have to indent if I use c++ or
> python so it really don't matter one gives me errors the other gets me
> complaints from other coders and believe me I would rather the errors.
>
> To top it all off I am thinking of using python in my commercial game 
> server
> and replacing my own language because that way I don't have to write the
> tutorials on my own language I can just do like  we do at work and point
> developers at www.python.org.  All I will have to do is give them the data
> set and tell them to go at it.  I thought of using a dll plug in type 
> thing
> where they could use any language in Linux but boost has python and it's 
> so
> much more easy to embed.  So my new found fondness for the language has 
> even
> forced me to make changes in my own personal business.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:35 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Indentation Griping...
>
> Hi.
>
> I find that indentation actually helps.
> I am mostly a c++ developer but our companies coding standards (and
> nearly every other coding standard I've ever looked at) for c++ mandates
> an indentation style.
>
> With a Braille display and an editor that automatically does indentation
> as you type it's not unfriendly but actually makes code much easier to
> navigate.
>
> I used to program with out a Braille display and could never understand
> why any one would ever spend the huge amount of cache on one. That was
> until I worked at Dolphin and was convinced to try one by one of the
> other developers there. I now find it much harder to code with out one.
> I'm not even a particular fan of Braille, The only time I use it is when
> I'm giving a presentation and coding.
>
> The other reason that indentation is a good thing to learn to do
> automatically is that as I said before most coding standards require it
> and from a visual point of view for my sited peers it's the normal way
> to do things.
>
> Just my 2 pennies worth
> Cheers.
> Nick.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
> Hofstader
> Sent: 08 December 2008 12:38
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Indentation Griping...
>
> Way back when I was a college student, sort of the Paleolithic era, many
> languages, including Fortran, had rather precise indentation rules (even
> a
> variety of different CPU assembly languages) and many of these languages
> were very important in the job market.  The most prolific (including
> Fortran) was COBOL which everyone hated but $75 p/h in 1979 made one
> hate it
> a lot less.  I programmed in a language called Neat/3 which was sort of
> an
> assembly language with COBOL like extensions ($50 p/h) and we covered a
> bunch of other languages with really peculiar indentation rules in
> various
> classes at university.
>
> The worst thing I found back then about indentation rules (one could set
> tab
> stops which made things a lot easier) was that a label that one might
> want
> to jump to was constricted to a small number of alpha-numeric characters
> and
> usually a colon which made making code readable pretty difficult,
> especially
> as none of were too fond of comments back then because when using punch
> cards adding another to the stack increases probability of shuffling.
>
> I know COBOL has removed the requirement for indentation specifics in
> more
> recent versions but I haven't looked at Fortran in about a million
> years.  I
> can't think of an assembly language I've programmed in since the late
> seventies that had indentation rules either.
>
> Your Virtual Grandpa,
> cdh
>
>
>
>
> Happy Hacking,
> cdh
>
> Chris Hofstader
> email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com
> Skype: BlindChristian
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:21 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Python indentation?
>
> Other languages don't have this???  Have you used Fortran?
>
> And by the way you might think fortran is an old language.  You would be
> wrong.  Fortran is still a power house in Parallel programming they use
> it
> to update satellite operating systems and man if you think python is
> picky
> just code in fortran a while you have to have comments in one column and
> execution statements in another and variable definitions in yet another.
>
> There are other languages as well.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
> Rasnita
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:27 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Python indentation?
>
> Well, I also think that the indentation is not exactly blind - friendly,
> but
>
> the others don't agree.
>
> I didn't say that this should be the reason for not using python because
> it
> is impossible to solve it, but just that it is something unfriendly that
>
> other languages don't have.
>
> And I have also told about other things that I personally don't like,
> for
> example that python doesn't use braces, but this isn't something
> unfriendly,
>
> because there are programmers that like exactly this. It is just
> something I
>
> don't like.
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:38 PM
> Subject: Python indentation?
>
>
>>I haven't used Python yet but I expect that I will.  I understand that
> its
>> indentation is significant to the meaning of the code on any given
> line
>> but
>> don't decent text editors keep one's indentation properly aligned?
> Adding
>> audio to describe the indentation of any given line is simple and, of
>> course, we all can use Jamal's editor to use braces while we type and
> make
>> them go away to compile properly.
>>
>> I don't know why people choose Python over any other language as I
> have
>> spent nearly zero time exploring it but, while indentation rules
> aren't
>> exactly blind friendly, I can't see it as a showstopper.
>>
>>
>> cdh
>>
>>
>> Happy Hacking,
>> cdh
>>
>> Chris Hofstader
>> email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com
>> Skype: BlindChristian
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
>> Rasnita
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:15 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>>
>> A whole month?!
>> It is much too much. One day would be enough, but I don't think I will
>
>> start
>>
>> to like python's indentation in a single day, and probably not even
> after
>> a
>> month.
>>
>> Oh, or if you will say that you don't like it but you just get used to
> use
>> it, then it is not enough.
>>
>> For the moment I can choose the language I need to use and I can
> choose
>> only
>>
>> what I personally like, no matter what others say.
>>
>> If I will see that I could be a part of a team that use python and I
> could
>> earn much enough to make the necessary effort of getting used to use
> it,
>> then I will probably start using it, but even in that case I don't
> think I
>> will say that python indentation is friendly for the blind.
>> How friendly could it be if it requires a month to get used to use it?
>>
>> Octavian
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:02 PM
>> Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I took 1 month to get so used to the indentation I don't even think
> of it
>>> and I did not start with Python as I have previously said so your
> just
>>> arguing to argue here.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
>>> Rasnita
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:38 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 3668 (20081206) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 3668 (20081206) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 3668 (20081206) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>> __________
>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 3668 (20081206) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 3668 (20081206) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
> This email and any files attached are intended for the addressee and may
> contain information of a confidential nature. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be aware that this email was sent to you in error and you 
> should
> not disclose, distribute, print, copy or make other use of this email or 
> its
> attachments. Such actions, in fact, may be unlawful. In compliance with 
> the
> various Regulations and Acts, General Dynamics United Kingdom Limited
> reserves the right to monitor (and examine for viruses) all emails and 
> email
> attachments, both inbound and outbound. Email communications and their
> attachments may not be secure or error- or virus-free and the company does
> not accept liability or responsibility for such matters or the 
> consequences
> thereof.  General Dynamics United Kingdom Limited, Registered Office: 100
> New Bridge Street, London EC4V 6JA. Registered in England and Wales No:
> 1911653.
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
> signature database 3682 (20081210) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at 
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

__________
View the list's information and change your settings at 
//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind

Other related posts: