Well let me just tell you this much. It is a linux based machine and the whole user interface is in Python. With your knowledge of Python you could make that happen in less than a week if it didn't already exist on the device. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nick Stockton Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:42 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Indentation Griping... Hey Ken, I was just wondering if you might know if the Braille plus supports other keyboard layouts besides QWERTY for the docking station or external keyboard? I'm a Dvorak user so if I ever got one it would have to support the Dvorak keyboard layout. Nick Stockton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:35 PM Subject: RE: Indentation Griping... > > > Sorry we have a beta in process so only the beta testers get that info. > It > should be out Jan 7 though and its one step on the way to newer and cooler > stuff. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:02 AM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Indentation Griping... > > interesting. What apps are you working on at APH? or can't you say? > Just curious. > Happy hacking. > --le > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:13 PM > Subject: RE: Indentation Griping... > > > > In Teddy's defense I was a self employed programmer before I took the job > at > APH. I didn't feel like learning python fully because I had heard on > this > list that the spacing was bad news. I had no one to worry about I could > code in anything I liked and I picked c and c++ for almost everything not > counting the few things I wrote in VB and c#. > > As soon as I got the job with APH though I have to indent if I use c++ or > python so it really don't matter one gives me errors the other gets me > complaints from other coders and believe me I would rather the errors. > > To top it all off I am thinking of using python in my commercial game > server > and replacing my own language because that way I don't have to write the > tutorials on my own language I can just do like we do at work and point > developers at www.python.org. All I will have to do is give them the data > set and tell them to go at it. I thought of using a dll plug in type > thing > where they could use any language in Linux but boost has python and it's > so > much more easy to embed. So my new found fondness for the language has > even > forced me to make changes in my own personal business. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Nick.Adamson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:35 AM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Indentation Griping... > > Hi. > > I find that indentation actually helps. > I am mostly a c++ developer but our companies coding standards (and > nearly every other coding standard I've ever looked at) for c++ mandates > an indentation style. > > With a Braille display and an editor that automatically does indentation > as you type it's not unfriendly but actually makes code much easier to > navigate. > > I used to program with out a Braille display and could never understand > why any one would ever spend the huge amount of cache on one. That was > until I worked at Dolphin and was convinced to try one by one of the > other developers there. I now find it much harder to code with out one. > I'm not even a particular fan of Braille, The only time I use it is when > I'm giving a presentation and coding. > > The other reason that indentation is a good thing to learn to do > automatically is that as I said before most coding standards require it > and from a visual point of view for my sited peers it's the normal way > to do things. > > Just my 2 pennies worth > Cheers. > Nick. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris > Hofstader > Sent: 08 December 2008 12:38 > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Indentation Griping... > > Way back when I was a college student, sort of the Paleolithic era, many > languages, including Fortran, had rather precise indentation rules (even > a > variety of different CPU assembly languages) and many of these languages > were very important in the job market. The most prolific (including > Fortran) was COBOL which everyone hated but $75 p/h in 1979 made one > hate it > a lot less. I programmed in a language called Neat/3 which was sort of > an > assembly language with COBOL like extensions ($50 p/h) and we covered a > bunch of other languages with really peculiar indentation rules in > various > classes at university. > > The worst thing I found back then about indentation rules (one could set > tab > stops which made things a lot easier) was that a label that one might > want > to jump to was constricted to a small number of alpha-numeric characters > and > usually a colon which made making code readable pretty difficult, > especially > as none of were too fond of comments back then because when using punch > cards adding another to the stack increases probability of shuffling. > > I know COBOL has removed the requirement for indentation specifics in > more > recent versions but I haven't looked at Fortran in about a million > years. I > can't think of an assembly language I've programmed in since the late > seventies that had indentation rules either. > > Your Virtual Grandpa, > cdh > > > > > Happy Hacking, > cdh > > Chris Hofstader > email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com > Skype: BlindChristian > > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:21 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Python indentation? > > Other languages don't have this??? Have you used Fortran? > > And by the way you might think fortran is an old language. You would be > wrong. Fortran is still a power house in Parallel programming they use > it > to update satellite operating systems and man if you think python is > picky > just code in fortran a while you have to have comments in one column and > execution statements in another and variable definitions in yet another. > > There are other languages as well. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian > Rasnita > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:27 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Python indentation? > > Well, I also think that the indentation is not exactly blind - friendly, > but > > the others don't agree. > > I didn't say that this should be the reason for not using python because > it > is impossible to solve it, but just that it is something unfriendly that > > other languages don't have. > > And I have also told about other things that I personally don't like, > for > example that python doesn't use braces, but this isn't something > unfriendly, > > because there are programmers that like exactly this. It is just > something I > > don't like. > > Octavian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:38 PM > Subject: Python indentation? > > >>I haven't used Python yet but I expect that I will. I understand that > its >> indentation is significant to the meaning of the code on any given > line >> but >> don't decent text editors keep one's indentation properly aligned? > Adding >> audio to describe the indentation of any given line is simple and, of >> course, we all can use Jamal's editor to use braces while we type and > make >> them go away to compile properly. >> >> I don't know why people choose Python over any other language as I > have >> spent nearly zero time exploring it but, while indentation rules > aren't >> exactly blind friendly, I can't see it as a showstopper. >> >> >> cdh >> >> >> Happy Hacking, >> cdh >> >> Chris Hofstader >> email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com >> Skype: BlindChristian >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian >> Rasnita >> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:15 PM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included >> >> A whole month?! >> It is much too much. One day would be enough, but I don't think I will > >> start >> >> to like python's indentation in a single day, and probably not even > after >> a >> month. >> >> Oh, or if you will say that you don't like it but you just get used to > use >> it, then it is not enough. >> >> For the moment I can choose the language I need to use and I can > choose >> only >> >> what I personally like, no matter what others say. >> >> If I will see that I could be a part of a team that use python and I > could >> earn much enough to make the necessary effort of getting used to use > it, >> then I will probably start using it, but even in that case I don't > think I >> will say that python indentation is friendly for the blind. >> How friendly could it be if it requires a month to get used to use it? >> >> Octavian >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:02 PM >> Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included >> >> >>> >>> >>> I took 1 month to get so used to the indentation I don't even think > of it >>> and I did not start with Python as I have previously said so your > just >>> arguing to argue here. >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian >>> Rasnita >>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:38 AM >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3668 (20081206) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3668 (20081206) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3668 (20081206) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3668 (20081206) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3668 (20081206) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > This email and any files attached are intended for the addressee and may > contain information of a confidential nature. 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