Re: Indentation Griping...
- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:53:53 +0200
Hey grandpa, feel young and try the new python!
It also forces us to use indentation. :-)
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:37 PM
Subject: Indentation Griping...
> Way back when I was a college student, sort of the Paleolithic era, many
> languages, including Fortran, had rather precise indentation rules (even a
> variety of different CPU assembly languages) and many of these languages
> were very important in the job market. The most prolific (including
> Fortran) was COBOL which everyone hated but $75 p/h in 1979 made one hate it
> a lot less. I programmed in a language called Neat/3 which was sort of an
> assembly language with COBOL like extensions ($50 p/h) and we covered a
> bunch of other languages with really peculiar indentation rules in various
> classes at university.
>
> The worst thing I found back then about indentation rules (one could set tab
> stops which made things a lot easier) was that a label that one might want
> to jump to was constricted to a small number of alpha-numeric characters and
> usually a colon which made making code readable pretty difficult, especially
> as none of were too fond of comments back then because when using punch
> cards adding another to the stack increases probability of shuffling.
>
> I know COBOL has removed the requirement for indentation specifics in more
> recent versions but I haven't looked at Fortran in about a million years. I
> can't think of an assembly language I've programmed in since the late
> seventies that had indentation rules either.
>
> Your Virtual Grandpa,
> cdh
>
>
>
>
> Happy Hacking,
> cdh
>
> Chris Hofstader
> email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com
> Skype: BlindChristian
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:21 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Python indentation?
>
> Other languages don't have this??? Have you used Fortran?
>
> And by the way you might think fortran is an old language. You would be
> wrong. Fortran is still a power house in Parallel programming they use it
> to update satellite operating systems and man if you think python is picky
> just code in fortran a while you have to have comments in one column and
> execution statements in another and variable definitions in yet another.
>
> There are other languages as well.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:27 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Python indentation?
>
> Well, I also think that the indentation is not exactly blind - friendly, but
>
> the others don't agree.
>
> I didn't say that this should be the reason for not using python because it
> is impossible to solve it, but just that it is something unfriendly that
> other languages don't have.
>
> And I have also told about other things that I personally don't like, for
> example that python doesn't use braces, but this isn't something unfriendly,
>
> because there are programmers that like exactly this. It is just something I
>
> don't like.
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:38 PM
> Subject: Python indentation?
>
>
>>I haven't used Python yet but I expect that I will. I understand that its
>> indentation is significant to the meaning of the code on any given line
>> but
>> don't decent text editors keep one's indentation properly aligned? Adding
>> audio to describe the indentation of any given line is simple and, of
>> course, we all can use Jamal's editor to use braces while we type and make
>> them go away to compile properly.
>>
>> I don't know why people choose Python over any other language as I have
>> spent nearly zero time exploring it but, while indentation rules aren't
>> exactly blind friendly, I can't see it as a showstopper.
>>
>>
>> cdh
>>
>>
>> Happy Hacking,
>> cdh
>>
>> Chris Hofstader
>> email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com
>> Skype: BlindChristian
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
>> Rasnita
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:15 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>>
>> A whole month?!
>> It is much too much. One day would be enough, but I don't think I will
>> start
>>
>> to like python's indentation in a single day, and probably not even after
>> a
>> month.
>>
>> Oh, or if you will say that you don't like it but you just get used to use
>> it, then it is not enough.
>>
>> For the moment I can choose the language I need to use and I can choose
>> only
>>
>> what I personally like, no matter what others say.
>>
>> If I will see that I could be a part of a team that use python and I could
>> earn much enough to make the necessary effort of getting used to use it,
>> then I will probably start using it, but even in that case I don't think I
>> will say that python indentation is friendly for the blind.
>> How friendly could it be if it requires a month to get used to use it?
>>
>> Octavian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:02 PM
>> Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I took 1 month to get so used to the indentation I don't even think of it
>>> and I did not start with Python as I have previously said so your just
>>> arguing to argue here.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
>>> Rasnita
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:38 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>>
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