Indentation Griping...
- From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:37:39 -0500
Way back when I was a college student, sort of the Paleolithic era, many
languages, including Fortran, had rather precise indentation rules (even a
variety of different CPU assembly languages) and many of these languages
were very important in the job market. The most prolific (including
Fortran) was COBOL which everyone hated but $75 p/h in 1979 made one hate it
a lot less. I programmed in a language called Neat/3 which was sort of an
assembly language with COBOL like extensions ($50 p/h) and we covered a
bunch of other languages with really peculiar indentation rules in various
classes at university.
The worst thing I found back then about indentation rules (one could set tab
stops which made things a lot easier) was that a label that one might want
to jump to was constricted to a small number of alpha-numeric characters and
usually a colon which made making code readable pretty difficult, especially
as none of were too fond of comments back then because when using punch
cards adding another to the stack increases probability of shuffling.
I know COBOL has removed the requirement for indentation specifics in more
recent versions but I haven't looked at Fortran in about a million years. I
can't think of an assembly language I've programmed in since the late
seventies that had indentation rules either.
Your Virtual Grandpa,
cdh
Happy Hacking,
cdh
Chris Hofstader
email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com
Skype: BlindChristian
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:21 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Python indentation?
Other languages don't have this??? Have you used Fortran?
And by the way you might think fortran is an old language. You would be
wrong. Fortran is still a power house in Parallel programming they use it
to update satellite operating systems and man if you think python is picky
just code in fortran a while you have to have comments in one column and
execution statements in another and variable definitions in yet another.
There are other languages as well.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:27 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Python indentation?
Well, I also think that the indentation is not exactly blind - friendly, but
the others don't agree.
I didn't say that this should be the reason for not using python because it
is impossible to solve it, but just that it is something unfriendly that
other languages don't have.
And I have also told about other things that I personally don't like, for
example that python doesn't use braces, but this isn't something unfriendly,
because there are programmers that like exactly this. It is just something I
don't like.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hofstader" <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:38 PM
Subject: Python indentation?
>I haven't used Python yet but I expect that I will. I understand that its
> indentation is significant to the meaning of the code on any given line
> but
> don't decent text editors keep one's indentation properly aligned? Adding
> audio to describe the indentation of any given line is simple and, of
> course, we all can use Jamal's editor to use braces while we type and make
> them go away to compile properly.
>
> I don't know why people choose Python over any other language as I have
> spent nearly zero time exploring it but, while indentation rules aren't
> exactly blind friendly, I can't see it as a showstopper.
>
>
> cdh
>
>
> Happy Hacking,
> cdh
>
> Chris Hofstader
> email: cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Blog: http://www.blindconfidential.blogspot.com
> Skype: BlindChristian
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
> Rasnita
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:15 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>
> A whole month?!
> It is much too much. One day would be enough, but I don't think I will
> start
>
> to like python's indentation in a single day, and probably not even after
> a
> month.
>
> Oh, or if you will say that you don't like it but you just get used to use
> it, then it is not enough.
>
> For the moment I can choose the language I need to use and I can choose
> only
>
> what I personally like, no matter what others say.
>
> If I will see that I could be a part of a team that use python and I could
> earn much enough to make the necessary effort of getting used to use it,
> then I will probably start using it, but even in that case I don't think I
> will say that python indentation is friendly for the blind.
> How friendly could it be if it requires a month to get used to use it?
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:02 PM
> Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>
>
>>
>>
>> I took 1 month to get so used to the indentation I don't even think of it
>> and I did not start with Python as I have previously said so your just
>> arguing to argue here.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
>> Rasnita
>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:38 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included
>
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