Hi, I see your point. A bit of history... In the old days, people used to communicate with a computer via command line interface, or CLI. As the name suggests, this means reading what's displayed on screen (the text) and typing text commands for input. Later for simplicity and for user friendliness, people switched to GUI or Graphical User Inteface. Although it may seem easy now to write programs from user's perspective, it became harder for programmers, especially when it comes to controls and text formatting and other graphical stuff. The console method is here in order to teach how a program would actually look like, in my opinion. Then after getting used to it, you'll be ready to move onto graphics things with basics in mind. C++ language is not only used to write Windows programs. It is used virtually in almost all operating systems and computer systems - from writing tiny test programs to even writing part of a program that manages this list. Even many operating systems (not all of them) such as part of Windows, was written in C++. Hope this helps. Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jes Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 4:49 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: blindprogramming@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: In regards to my giving up on programming? Ken wrote: "You can get up and running much faster on a language like, python, or c and actually see results. Results is what matters when you start out coding"... I couldn't agree more with that. The IDE is a lazy man's way to begin to program. To me, any text book or college material which gives you a prepackaged formula, claiming to teach you something isn't really doing you any good and shouldn't even be used by the college. As an example, the book I am using is "An Introduction to Programming with C plus plus, by Diane Zak." Thank goodness they used programming, not coding. They only show you the code you need to copy and paste into your IDE, which, in this case, is Visual Studio. I like the way the book introduces new concepts of the C plus plus language to you, but they fail to really get down into the dirt with all of it. For example, they tell you what an algorithm is, and they tell you the various procedures to start writing a program; 1, analyzing a problem, 2, planning an algorithm, 3, desk-checking your algorithm, etc. Basically, it just feels like I'm copying and pasting in a bunch of code, into an IDE so I can pass a course. Furthermore, when we finally have no errors in the code, the .exe opens up in a command prompt. They don't even help us build real genuine Windows apps, it's all console applications. I've always associated C plus plus with genuine Windows gui application development. What's wrong with this picture? Jes, the proud man. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2976 - Release Date: 07/02/10 06:35:00 __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind