Not hard at all, just minorly annoying. Take care, Sina -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 3:04 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Good resource for beginning programmers That's what I was getting at; the whole virtual addressing and stuff. He was making it sound as if: int i[10] i[10]=300 Was going to make things go boom. :) I jus didn't want the OP to be scared off. Windows and *nix both have virtual addressing, so accessing bob's process from joe's process is fairly hard. On 11/18/2010 12:57 PM, qubit wrote: > Hi Ty -- I am not sure about windows so take this with a grain of > salt, but it is true that an OS does have some protections, such as > preventing writing to someone else's virtual memory, to guard against > malware. However a truely pathological C++ program can use pointers > to do some interesting things with stack frames that will cause a lot of very > strange behavior. > But no, it won't go outside the process's virtual space, fortunately. > And perhaps it varies with the OS. > Keep in mind though that a debugger is just a program, and needs to > have the ability to control a process and therefore needs to be able > to write to addresses that are otherwise protected. > I particularly enjoyed debugger development when I was working in > language support. It is fascinating to me to see how a process is > implemented. > --le > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:32 PM > Subject: Re: Good resource for beginning programmers > > > You're making c++ sound way way to dangerous. If you mess up with a > pointer, unless you're programming at a way way low level and directly > accessing the harddrive, you're not going to trash anything. You have > access to memory, but like I said before when you went off on this > "c++ can blow up the world," thing, the OS protects programmers from > themselves. Or sort of, anyway. > On 11/17/2010 6:20 PM, Alex Midence wrote: >> Good lord, no! php might be written in c++ but, I promise you that >> you can not do the same things. Php won't have stuff like template >> metaprogramming, generic programming nor will it compile right down >> to binary like c++. If you write stuff in c++, it runs lightning fast. >> I don't know the syntax to php but, I'm pretty sure it's too >> different from c++ to be concsidered a dialect. Python is definitely >> nothing like c in its syntax. And, you could never program a driver >> in Python. It would take forever if it runs at all. They are not >> dialects of the languages they are written in. I wish someone who >> was a bonified computer scientist could jump in and explain this in >> terms more fitting. Scripting languages are used primarily for tweaking. >> Look at the Jaws scripting language, for instance. Languages like >> Python and lua are used to customize applicatiosn written in stuff >> like c++ so that they don't have to rewrite the whole app and >> recompile it just for a few modifications. It's hard to explain. >> Honestly, you will just have to do some research until you find >> something that explains it to you in a way that will make sense to >> you. >> >> Yes, the lines between some scripting languages and programming >> languages are becoming blurred but the great yawning chasm that will >> never be crossed is still the interpreted versus compiled chasm. You >> might technically be able to write an application from the ground up >> in pure Python but, I promise you that if that thing goes toe to toe >> with another version of the same application written in c++, it will >> lose every time. By the time the Python app is done printing out its >> welcome message, the c++ app has done what was asked of it and closed. >> This is because there are too many layers between the app and the >> binary code for it. It's first got to go through the interpreter >> which then puts it into binary. The app written in c++ runs right on >> the system itself. You have to go to something like c or asm to get >> lower level. The isntructions to the computer don't have to be >> translated before execution. The day when what you mention with >> regard to making something like c++ available to the nonprogrammer is >> way way far off in the future if it will ever come. I frandkly hope >> it doesn't The thought of some nonprogrammers I know with acces to >> that kind of computing power is frightening. I mean, you can tell >> the computer exactly what to do right down to what goes where in each >> individual piece of memory. There are no shortcuts in that language. >> And, there shouldn't be. It gives you so many chances to shoot >> yourself in the foot that if you aren't down in the inner workings of >> it, as it were, under the proverbial hood, you won't be able to >> control what it does. You could realistically totally trash a hard >> drive if you screw up just right with pointers and if you do >> something like overflowing an array of 10 items with say 100 or >> something like that. I hear you can do some serious damage with stuff like >> that. >> Can't see that kind of damage being caused by php or python. >> >> Alex M >> >> On 11/17/10, Client Services<operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Hi- >>> Thank you for that explanation. >>> Seems like the line between programming and scripting languages is >>> getting blurred. >>> Are scripting languages becoming as powerful as a programming language? >>> Or >>> do they just bring the best out of the programming language they are >>> written in. >>> If PHP and Python are written in C and C++, then why can't they make >>> PHP and Python to be more like a CMS and useable by non-programmers? >>> In summary, if I have this correct, a scripting language is actually >>> written in a programming language and is just a way of accessing and >>> using the given programming language. >>> When I use PHP and Python, I am actually using C and C++, just in a >>> unique dialect? That is assuming Python and PHP are written in C or >>> C++. >>> So somehow, PHP and Python were supposed to make C or what ever >>> programming language easier to use? >>> Is this accurate? >>> Sorry for the dumb questions. >>> >>> H.R. Soltani >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of >>> Christopher >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 6:24 PM >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: Good resource for beginning programmers >>> >>> This is one of my pet peeves. >>> >>> A programming language is a language that is, in the majority of the >>> cases, compiled to native machine code -and- used for application >>> development (i.e. C, C++, D) A scripting language is a language that >>> is, in the majority of the cases, interpreted -and- used to control >>> applications, and sometimes application development in general (i.e. >>> Python, PHP, Ruby, AutoIT, etc.) Java was not a true programming >>> language until recently when it decided to compile its bytecode >>> on-the-fly. C# has always been a programming language because it has >>> always compiled its MSIL on-the-fly. PHP and Python are both written >>> in C and are both interpreted. (PHP might be written in C++.) >>> >>> I refuse to call a non-compiled language a programming language, >>> regardless of the language. >>> >>> So, here is a simple test to see what is a programming language and >>> what is a scripting language. >>> >>> 1. Can you write a full application in the language? If yes, then is >>> the language compiled? If yes, then it is a programming language. >>> 2. Can you write a full application in the language? If yes, then is >>> the language compiled? If no, then it is a scripting language. >>> 3. Can you write a full application in the language? If no, then it >>> is a scripting language. >>> >>> >>> On 11/17/2010 2:24 PM, Alex Midence wrote: >>>> I am not at a stage in my learning where I can do well at >>>> explaining this so, I have provided some links for you to explore: >>>> >>>> Scripting language >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language >>>> >>>> Programming language: >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language >>>> >>>> Be warned: This will create more questions for you. Have fun!!! >>>> >>>> Alex M >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/17/10, Client Services<operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> Hi- >>>>> What is the difference between a scripting language and a >>>>> programming language? >>>>> So if PHP and Python are scripting languages, what programming >>>>> language >>> are >>>>> they written in? >>>>> And why are they called scripting languages? >>>>> >>>>> H.R. Soltani >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex >>>>> Midence >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:52 PM >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: Re: Good resource for beginning programmers >>>>> >>>>> You've got scripting languages and programming languages there. >>>>> Javascript is client side scripting. Websites run scripts on the >>>>> visitor's machine to dynamically change themselves according to >>>>> stimuli. Php is a scripting language that does dynamic webpage >>>>> changing among other things from the server side. It is used in >>>>> conjunction with database solutions like my sql and the like. >>>>> Java and C are both programming languages. Java is a high level >>>>> object-oriented language that runs on a virtual machine. It is >>>>> used to create applets and web apps for all sorts of functions. >>>>> Java is also used to create desktop applicaitons like, for >>>>> instance, Eclipse, Open Office, and things of that nature. C is a >>>>> low-level procedural programming language that is used for desktop >>>>> aplications and low-level programming such as drivers, utilities and the >>>>> like. >>>>> Certain platforms are also written in C like, for instance, >>>>> Windoes is in C. I believe Gnome was also written in C. I went >>>>> into this detail because your post indicated that you thought >>>>> these were all web development languages and they are not. Python >>>>> is a scripting language that can do a lot of the same things >>>>> programming languages can do and has a reputation for being easy >>>>> to learn and fostering rapid development. An applications that >>>>> php could not create, IMHO is a screen reader. Python was used to create >>>>> two of them. >>>>> >>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>> Alex M >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/17/10, Client Services<operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> Hi everybody- >>>>>> I am trying to decide where to start as far as learning programming. >>>>>> I decided I would focus on 1. PHP, 2. JavaScript, 3. Java, 4. C I >>>>>> figured these are being used the most in web development and >>>>>> custom applications. So, where does Python come in? How would >>>>>> you compare >>> Python >>>>>> with Java, PHP, and C?? >>>>>> Can anybody give me an example of what cannot be developed in PHP >>>>>> which >>>>> can >>>>>> be developed in Python? >>>>>> Or how about Java vs Python if PHP is to lowly? I have just >>>>>> heard PHP >>> has >>>>>> limitations. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> H.R. Soltani >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> > -- Thanks, Ty __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind