Re: Good resource for beginning programmers

Pardon me, but was my explanation not fitting? :(

On 11/17/2010 5:20 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
Good lord, no!  php might be written in c++ but, I promise you that
you can not do the same things.  Php won't have stuff like template
metaprogramming, generic programming nor will it compile right down to
binary like c++.  If you write stuff in c++, it runs lightning fast.
I don't know the syntax to php but, I'm pretty sure it's too different
from c++ to be concsidered a dialect.  Python is definitely nothing
like c in its syntax.  And, you could never program a driver in
Python.  It would take forever if it runs at all.  They are not
dialects of the languages they are written in.  I wish someone who was
a bonified computer scientist could jump in and explain this in terms
more fitting.  Scripting languages are used primarily for tweaking.
Look at the Jaws scripting language, for instance.  Languages like
Python and lua are used to customize applicatiosn written in stuff
like c++ so that they don't have to rewrite the whole app and
recompile it just for a few modifications.  It's hard to explain.
Honestly, you will just have to do some research until you find
something that explains it to you in a way that will make sense to
you.

Yes, the lines between some scripting languages and programming
languages are becoming blurred but the great yawning chasm that will
never be crossed is still the interpreted versus compiled chasm.  You
might technically be able to write an application from the ground up
in pure Python but, I promise you that if that thing goes toe to toe
with another version of the same application written in c++, it will
lose every time.  By the time the Python app is done printing out its
welcome message, the c++ app has done what was asked of it and closed.
  This is because there are too many layers between the app and the
binary code for it.  It's first got to go through the interpreter
which then puts it into binary.  The app written in c++ runs right on
the system itself.  You have to go to something like c or asm to get
lower level.  The isntructions to the computer don't have to be
translated before execution.  The day when what you mention with
regard to making something like c++ available to the nonprogrammer is
way way far off in the future if it will ever come.  I frandkly hope
it doesn't  The thought of some nonprogrammers I know with acces to
that kind of computing power is frightening.  I mean, you can tell the
computer exactly what to do right down to what goes where in each
individual piece of memory.  There are no shortcuts in that language.
And, there shouldn't be.  It gives you so many chances to shoot
yourself in the foot that if you aren't down in the inner workings of
it, as it were, under the proverbial hood, you won't be able to
control what it does.  You could realistically totally trash a hard
drive if you screw up just right with pointers and if you do something
like overflowing an array of 10 items with say 100 or something like
that.  I hear you can do some serious damage with stuff like that.
Can't see that kind of damage being caused by php or python.

Alex M

On 11/17/10, Client Services<operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
Hi-
Thank you for that explanation.
Seems like the line between programming and scripting languages is getting
blurred.
Are scripting languages becoming as powerful as a programming language?  Or
do they just bring the best out of the programming language they are written
in.
If PHP and Python are written in C and C++, then why can't they make PHP and
Python to be more like a CMS and useable by non-programmers?
In summary, if I have this correct, a scripting language is actually written
in a programming language and is just a way of accessing and using the given
programming language.
When I use PHP and Python, I am actually using C and C++, just in a unique
dialect?  That is assuming Python and PHP are written in C or C++.
So somehow, PHP and Python were supposed to make C or what ever programming
language easier to use?
Is this accurate?
Sorry for the dumb questions.

H.R. Soltani

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christopher
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 6:24 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Good resource for beginning programmers

This is one of my pet peeves.

A programming language is a language that is, in the majority of the
cases, compiled to native machine code -and- used for application
development (i.e. C, C++, D) A scripting language is a language that is,
in the majority of the cases, interpreted -and- used to control
applications, and sometimes application development in general (i.e.
Python, PHP, Ruby, AutoIT, etc.) Java was not a true programming
language until recently when it decided to compile its bytecode
on-the-fly. C# has always been a programming language because it has
always compiled its MSIL on-the-fly. PHP and Python are both written in
C and are both interpreted. (PHP might be written in C++.)

I refuse to call a non-compiled language a programming language,
regardless of the language.

So, here is a simple test to see what is a programming language and what
is a scripting language.

1. Can you write a full application in the language? If yes, then is the
language compiled? If yes, then it is a programming language.
2. Can you write a full application in the language? If yes, then is the
language compiled? If no, then it is a scripting language.
3. Can you write a full application in the language? If no, then it is a
scripting language.


On 11/17/2010 2:24 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
I am not at a stage in my learning where I can do well at explaining
this so, I have provided some links for you to explore:

Scripting language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language

Programming language:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language

Be warned:  This will create more questions for you.  Have fun!!!

Alex M




On 11/17/10, Client Services<operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
Hi-
What is the difference between a scripting language and a programming
language?
So if PHP and Python are scripting languages, what programming language
are
they written in?
And why are they called scripting languages?

H.R. Soltani


-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Midence
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:52 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Good resource for beginning programmers

You've got scripting languages and programming languages there.
Javascript is client side scripting.  Websites run scripts on the
visitor's machine to dynamically change themselves according to
stimuli.  Php is a scripting language that does dynamic webpage
changing among other things from the server side.  It is used in
conjunction with database solutions like my sql and the like.  Java
and C are both programming languages.  Java is a high level
object-oriented language that runs on a virtual machine.  It is used
to create applets and web apps for all sorts of functions.  Java is
also used to create desktop  applicaitons like, for instance, Eclipse,
Open Office, and things of that nature.  C is a low-level procedural
programming language that is used for desktop aplications and
low-level programming such as drivers, utilities and the like.
Certain platforms are also written in C like, for instance, Windoes is
in C.  I believe Gnome was also written in C.  I went into this detail
because your post indicated that you thought these were all web
development languages and they are not.  Python is a scripting
language that can do a lot of the same things programming languages
can do and has a reputation for being easy to learn and fostering
rapid development.  An applications that php could not create, IMHO is
a screen reader.  Python was used to create two of them.

Hope that helps,
Alex M


On 11/17/10, Client Services<operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>   wrote:
Hi everybody-
I am trying to decide where to start as far as learning programming.
I decided I would focus on 1. PHP, 2. JavaScript, 3. Java, 4. C
I figured these are being used the most in web development and custom
applications. So, where does Python come in?  How would you compare
Python
with Java, PHP, and C??
Can anybody give me an example of what cannot be developed in PHP which
can
be developed in Python?
Or how about Java vs Python if PHP is to lowly?  I have just heard PHP
has
limitations.



H.R. Soltani
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