Re: Getting started learning VB6

Sorry, Rick, just going to say that all of that might be true in the US, but, 
for example, me and Jacques live here in South Africa, where it's sometimes 
quite a bit different...<smile>

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: RicksPlace 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:32 PM
  Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6


  Nope: At most all major companies the first requirement to even submit an 
application is a 2 or 4 year degree. Also, 4 years of formal education gives 
you a background in allot of other areas and skills you won't develop on your 
own in the area of Math, English Composition and Grammer, Logical and Critical 
thinking etc...
  You could work at some small business for 4 years developing VB.net 
applications in say VB.net Express using Text Files for your data storage and 
you would not even be on the same planet as someone coming out of say MIT with 
a degree in Computer Systems Engineering, Computer Science or holding a duel 
Degree in Computer Science - Software engineering and any other subject with 
one or more minors like in Business, Engineering, Forgin Languages, Math, 
Physics, Chemistry, Medical Technology of any sort, Teaching, Nursing ... you 
get the idea.
  Don't delude yourself that 4 years of any kind of experience is any 
substitute for a degree from a good university, MIT was a bit of an exaduration 
but you, again, get the idea. Let's say you have 4 years working at any small 
business doing the things that a small business does since that is the only 
place you may have any chance of getting hired in the first place. The second 
person has a Degree from a Major University in the field of Computer Science 
with a Minor in the exact sub-field desired by a company likeHSBC. Now, they 
want a beginner, entry-level programmer they can groom to become a Programmer 
Analyst as all big companies do. I tell you know you have no chance at that job 
with your 4 years of experience and a high school education compared to the MIT 
Grad. It is flat-out silly to think you really think there is any comparison 
between a major university education and just hacking around playing with a pc 
for 4 years - that dog just don't hunt.
  As someone else mentioned, if you don't know someone who can slip you into 
the company regardless of your qualifications and competitive standing in the 
field you won't stand a chance. 
  Rick USA
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Jacques Bosch 
    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:01 AM
    Subject: Re: Getting started learning VB6


    Hi Rick.

    To be fair you have to give the guy without the degree 4 years of 
experience. <smile>
    I think you guys are hearing what I am not saying. I can't even remember 
how we got hear any more. I am not promoting the idea of not aspiring to a 
formal education. I am just saying that it is possible the other way also, and 
a lot of passion and hard work.
    In the end of the day it comes down to whether somebody can get the job 
done, get it done in the right way for any given environment. And yes, 
universities can give you a good push in the right direction, however, it boils 
right down to the individual in the end.

    Something interesting that I experienced in the software company where I 
was part owner;
    Over a period of 2 years we had to fill several positions. We must have 
interviewed about 30 candidates in total. What really got to us where these 
people fresh out of university with their degrees that thought they were the 
big answer, and then they totally and utterly crash in the practical test which 
was a very simple program. They had to write a console application in their 
language of choice, when given a root folder, to list the nested folder 
structure below it. We did not tell them to use recursion. (Wait, eventually we 
did start telling them after they made no headway, but it didn't help any).
    Before we realized the power of the practical test to separate those who 
had a clue from those who did not, we appointed 2 guys with formal degrees from 
respected universities. The one guy had a good attitude, but was virtually 
useless in terms of any productivity for the next 18 months because he had to 
learn how things worked in the real world. The other guys was an absolute 
disaster. He actually had the degree and several years experience, and was 
extremely smooth and knowledgeable sounding in the interview, and was appointed 
as a senior developer, but was the worst thing we ever did in the company. He 
was clueless, had a bad attitude, but expected all the dues of a "senior" 
position.
    There were two other guys, that did not have a degree. The 1 had a 1 year 
diploma, and the other had nothing. These were the two that really shined, and 
besides me and my partner, they made the company work. They were the "junior" 
developers, but blew the other two out of the water. They ended up doing / 
redoing the "senior" guys work.

    Again, this is just experience and not an argument against getting a formal 
education. But if I ever hire again, I will make damn sure that I am not conned 
by the implied competence of a degree, but that the person really does know the 
first thing about software engineering in the real world.
    I'd rather take somebody that has the aptitude, and good attitude, without 
the degree, and mentor them on the job, than somebody who has a degree, and 
think they know everything, and have to teach them just as much.
    All other things being equal though, I would take the person with the 
degree. <smile>

    Jacques


    On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:51 AM, The Elf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

      *sigh*

      I disagree with your assessment of visual ability and past capabilities 
and choice of GUI or console programming.

      also that is not the only place and way to learn, I have some resources 
and a site that it's original use was for blind programmers, Jamal Mazrui has a 
site devoted to this topic, etc.

      my sight is the grab bag site listed under my name below, and Jamal's is:
      www.NonvisualDevelopment.org

      I do grant that you should go to VB.net or better C#.net so your starting 
out in a current language, and either the vb.net 2008 will work good, and I 
hear that 2010 does work with a few more difficulties.

      HTH, 

      elf
      Moderator, Blind Access Help
      Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
      Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
      - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
      www.alacorncomputer.com
      proprietor, The Grab Bag,
      for blind computer users and programmers
      http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com


      ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 
26" <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx>
      To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
      Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 AM 

      Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6


      There may not be enough money to use and learn dot net.  Fortunately,
      mono can be installed and will run on Windows as well as Linux and the
      price tag is $0.00.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DaShiell,
      Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
      Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:28
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: RE: Getting started learning VB6

      No, not without knowing your visual status.  If you have memory of
      having had vision or better yet have a little useable vision your best
      bet would be to learn the language with windows forms.  If you have no
      memory of vision, then your best bet would be to learn the language
      using the console interface, and these are two completely different
      paths.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Otis D Blue
      Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:22
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: Getting started learning VB6

      Hi,

      Could someone suggest where I can go to learn how to use VB as a
      beginner?
      I would like to get the understanding of the language and how to create
      software with it.

      Otis Blue

      Join Blind-entrepreneurs by subscribing at
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    -- 

    Jacques Bosch 

    Software Architecture and Development
    Independent Contractor
    Cell: +27 824711807 Fax: +27 86 504 4726
    E-Mail: jfbosch@xxxxxxxxx

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