Re: GNU Accessibility Statement Online

I would think a part of optimizing any sort of cloud-based, widespread accessibility framework would involve discerning which users were using it so as to not send a lot of unnecessary accessibility-related data back and forth with users who aren't utilizing it. As more and more software goes into the cloud, it seems reasonable to assume that accessibility features of those cloud-based applications might be enabled or disabled on a per user level, and a user could seemingly be asociated to whatever accessibility features they have chosen to enable. As the software goes into the cloud, some of the accessibility will need to as well. It won't always be sufficient to have local access solutions for dynamically changing applications on a web platform, although most access solutions today are based locally.


Just clarifying what I think the issue might be, personally I at this juncture am simply willing to put my paranoia aside in favor of the increased flexibility and potential of the cloud computing model. I want privacy to be protected, but I'd rather not see technology stagnate on account of it.

Jared





On 3/27/2010 4:29 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
How are they easy to identify?

I'm not sure why you are blanketly accepting this premis?

How would you identify someone is using a screen reader or any other assistive 
technology if they are connecting via a web service,
SSH, private protocol, or whatever.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qubit
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:17 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: GNU Accessibility Statement Online

Interesting argument.  My only question is, would I have access to my own data 
on the server?
Anyway, I agree privacy applies to everyone equally and not just persons with 
disabilities, but I think one difference is that the
disabled persons accessing the server are easy to identify, and therefore there 
is an inherent privacy issue for them in particular.
I don't know if this is why the statement appears in the GAS.  Perhaps Chris 
can answer.
--le

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sina Bahram"<sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: GNU Accessibility Statement Online


With all due respect, I don't believe anyone deserves or needs privacy more
so or less than someone else. Privacy should be an
inalienable  right given to all individuals or none. So, I respectfully
disagree that folks with disabilities are any different than
those without disabilities, or certain ethnicity groups, and so forth.

With respect to your seemingly circular argument that cloud computing
somehow is more or less secure than self computing. I do not
accept this as a reason nor as a valid excuse. It seems that your primary
argument against cloud computing revolves around the
decentralization of information from one's own ownership. In other words,
you claim that because my data resides in Boston, New
York, or Beijing, it is somehow less secure than if it is on a computer
system I own.

If you like, I can actually point you to several academic papers which have
shown quite effective double blind security measures;
for example, using something like pgp for communication layer, AES for data
protection, anonymizers for privacy protection, and
things such as the onion router for protection against tracing you down via
TCP/IP access patterns.

So I believe if appropriate measures are taken, it can actually be far
better with respect to privacy concerns that one's data is
not on computers that one owns. That way, it is not tied to a physical
object that can be linked to you. To this end, I posit that
keeping the data on your own computer can be just as, if not more so,
harmful to privacy, and I disagree with the free software
foundation's inaccurate advice to keep data in one easy to surveil, easy to
capture, and easy to associate place. The techniques you
suggest and advocate for can actually harm privacy related concerns, not
advance them.

All of this having been said, why are we mentioning it in an accessibility
statement?

Why?

Just talk about accessibility, not about privacy.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:23 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: GNU Accessibility Statement Online

Hi,

I don't disagree and wanted the statement removed but it is a GNU statement
and must, therefore, it needs to reflect the
fundamentals of FSF.

Also, people with disabilities need privacy more so than others as
everything from insurance premiums to potential lawsuits may
cause problems when and if someone gets access to their information.
Remember, a person with disability will cost more to insure so
companies may be reluctant to hire them for that reason alone.

If asked about this statement, though, we can point to Bill Gates who, in a
COMDEX keynote address a bunch of years ago, he made a
strong statement against server based programs, citing a value of putting
computes in the hands of the individual and also raising
privacy concerns.

Also, there are people in jail in China because Yahoo turned over records
stored on their servers. Why not expect that the US
security infrastructure would be following all transactions on Skype, MSN,
etc. giving them a lot of information into which they can
cast a wide net.

There's a lot of problems with server based systems ranging from privacy to
a centralized data bank that can be mined for all sorts
of reasons.

Lastly, there is the question of who controls your computing and your data.
Local systems put you in charge while who knows what
google might do with or to your information.

Of course, I could be wrong.

cdh
On Mar 27, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Sina Bahram wrote:

The following statement really got to me:

"and please don't invite users to do something on a server that they could
conceivably do on their own computers."

I understand that Stallmann is one of the leading activists against
cloud computing, but why on earth are you allowing such an agenda to creap
into a statement on accessibility?

In my opinion, this one statement completely undermines the rest of the
things you're trying to do.

Take care,
Sina

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
Hofstader
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:00 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: GNU Accessibility Statement Online

Hi,

For a couple of months, Richard Stallman and I have been working on
the GNU Accessibility Statement (GAS)  which takes a no nonsense
approach to endorsing the rights of people with disabilities as regard
software within the context of free software. I've never
read a more strongly worded statement from any organization regarding
software and people with disabilities.
GAS also takes a strong stance on free software values but does not
endorse any specific license, although we would like people to use GPL.

You can read the statement at:
http://www.gnu.org/accessibility/accessibility.html
and send comments to me that we can consider for future revisions of the
statement.

Thanks,
cdh

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