Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:24:36 -0700
From: inthaneelf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
there is a module for creating desktop applications with php, but the
module
is not accessible, so this is a problem with my having a application made
in
it on the site.
and I think a compromise is due here!
I can go through and if I do not have an example for it in both, then I
can
at least put a simple, marking of some sort, an alert so to say that the
language is used in both.
and the point that while as Jamal said, vb.net and c# can be used to make
stuff for asp.net, you still need asp.net to utilize them, so that one is
a
combo, hmmmm, I can make a template like the one that is on the page now,
made invisible in html code, that has the format of a "used in both web
and
desktop programming" and have a space for additional notes there, this way
the primary distinction is there, but the notes and additional uses are
with
each language as well,.
respects,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
Links
to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
> Ok, but in that case it should be made no distinction at all, it should
> be
> created a single section, and eventually specify for each program if it
> is
> one for the desktop or one for the web.
>
> Otherwise, some programs won't be found because they are for the
> desktop,
> but they are stored in the section with the programs for the web.
>
> But I still think that a distinction should be made, because the users
> should see that a certain language is better for the desktop or for the
> web if there are more programs for that environment, and they should see
> that a certain language is not very much used for creating applications
> for a certain environment, like VB.net for the web for example.
>
> I think C++ could also print something to STDOUT, so it could be used
> for
> creating programs for the web, and possibly assembly also. Maybe Visual
> Basic 6 can't be used normally.
> I heard that there is a project began that should allow to create
> programs
> for the desktop with PHP also. But... how many programs for the desktop
> are made (if there are) with PHP, and how many programs are made with
> VB.net?
>
> The users should see how easy is to code in a certain language, and also
> find out if that language is used by many programmers.
>
> That's why I said some time ago that anyone should come and create his
> own
> version of this program, no matter if there are other versions made in a
> certain language.
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
>
>
> I also appreciate Inthane's work on this, and suggest that the
> distinction between desktop and web languages is not sufficiently
> meaningful to be worth doing. Besides C++ and Assembler for the desktop
> and PHP and JavaScript for the web, almost every other language is now
> commonly used for both desktop and web programs. VBNET and C#, for
> example, are used to make web sites built with the ASP.NET classes. I
> think the intent of the distinction was good, but in practical terms, it
> is no longer a useful, top-level categorization in the project.
>
> Just my opinion after some reflection on this issue.
> Jamal
> On Sat, 13
> Oct 2007, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
>> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:45:35 +0300
>> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
>>
>> I don't think you need to make 3 sections. You just need to make only
>> 2.
>>
>> Thinking from the point of view of the beginner programmer that wants
>> to
>> start learning a new language, I think that he or she might intend to
>> create
>> a certain kind of program.
>> Maybe the programmer doesn't know yet which would be the best language,
>> but
>> he or she knows for sure that wants to create a desktop program or a
>> program
>> for the web, so he will look in the section of sample programs for
>> desktop
>> or for the web.
>>
>> If I'd be in his place, I wouldn't choose a language that is not for
>> the
>> desktop and not for the web, but that can do both, because I wouldn't
>> know
>> if I'll find samples for what I need in that third section.
>>
>> So, let's say I want to create a desktop program. Well, I'd look in the
>> section of the languages that can be used for creating desktop
>> programs.
>> But I wouldn't find perl there and this is not good.
>>
>> If you'll create a third section and I would want to make a program for
>> the
>> web, then maybe I will look in the Ruby example because I would see
>> that
>> it
>> is for desktop and for the web, but I won't find a version for the web
>> there, so I won't trust that section anymore, so I'd look only in the
>> sections that clearly say that are only for the web or only for
>> desktop.
>>
>> The fact that you added a word "mostly" in the explanation is absolutly
>> not
>> important because nobody would know what he would be able to find in
>> that
>> section.
>>
>> I have seen that you organized the programming languages, but I don't
>> think
>> they are important here. The most important things are the sample
>> programs,
>> no matter the programming language.
>> If a beginner programmer will see and like the code of a certain
>> program,
>> he
>> might want to learn the language that program is made in, no matter
>> which
>> is
>> it, but this only if that program does what he wants.
>>
>> So the explanation of what the languages are good for is good, but
>> should
>> be
>> accessible only after the code of the program.
>>
>> But anyway, you put some work in this site and we should thank you for
>> this.
>>
>> Even though I think it could be better, I can't recommend to make the
>> effort
>> and improve it, because.... (but this is just my opinion), I think that
>> it
>> not very helpful at all... for the moment.
>>
>> (Not because it is bad or less good, but because maybe the beginner
>> programmers start learning in a different way... who knows).
>>
>>
>> Octavian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "inthaneelf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 5:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
>>
>>
>> > Octavian, this is why the header for the sections both say "mostly"
>> > this
>> > means that many of the languages can be used for both
>> >
>> > I did not wish to have to make three distinct sections, its
>> > confusing
>> > enough, but I'll consider doing so.
>> >
>> > there, also, is a definition file for each language, which would
>> > talk
>> > about this point as well.
>> >
>> > thanks again,
>> > inthane
>> > . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
>> > Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications,
>> > visit
>> > me
>> > at:
>> > http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>> > . to be able to view a simple programming project in several
>> > programming
>> > languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
>> > http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 1:35 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
>> >
>> >
>> >> Sorry but I think I didn't understand the question. I don't
>> >> understand
>> >> what you mean by "idiomatic".
>> >>
>> >> And yes, I remember that the FruitBasket in Perl with Win32::GUI was
>> >> put
>> >> in the section of languages for the web, which is not correct, and I
>> >> already told that.
>> >>
>> >> FruitBasket versions in perl using Win32::GUI and WXPerl should be
>> >> put
>> >> in
>> >> the section of languages for desktop programs, because in those
>> >> programs
>> >> perl is used as a desktop program, and FruitBasket made as a CGI
>> >> program
>> >> should be put in the section of languages for the web, because that
>> >> program is one for the web, just like the one made in Javascript.
>> >>
>> >> And one more thing, it is important to let the users know that perl
>> >> can
>> >> be used as a language for desktop programs and as a language for the
>> >> web
>> >> programs, while other languages cannot, or at least for the moment
>> >> there
>> >> are no FruitBasket demos made in those languages.
>> >>
>> >> Octavian
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Veli-Pekka Tätilä" <vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 12:19 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: Fruitbasket in Perl and Win32::GUI, OO Style
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Hi Octavian,
>> >>> About the Win32::GUi version of Fruit Basket in Perl.
>> >>> Or maybe I simply missed it, since I only looked at the link names
>> >>> and
>> >>> read the info blurb mentioning Perl being a server side lang. How
>> >>> idiomatic code is that, by the way?
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a bad, in terms of maintenance, habit of trying to code as
>> >>> Perlishly and concisely I can. So one thing I've gottten lately
>> >>> into
>> >>> OO
>> >>> Perl are initializing the fields of an object by assigning to a
>> >>> hash
>> >>> slice. Like this (untested):
>> >>>
>> >>> @$object{qw|field1 field2|} = (3.14, 42); # whatever.
>> >>>
>> >>> In stead of using up two precious statements and the deref arrow.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
>> >>> Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
>> >>> http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila
>> >>>
>> >>> Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>> >>>> I sent a version made with Win32::GUI in perl, and one in perl as
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> server
>> >>>> side language, but maybe they are lost...
>> >>> __________
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