Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:59:50 +0300
From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
I have tried it again, and I've seen that it is pretty accessible. Not
very
friendly to Jaws, but accessible yes.
If I moved the focus with left and right arrows in order to select a tab
page or the second one, Jaws use to say only "WX" for each page, beeing
pretty hard to see on which of the pages is the focus.
But if I pressed Insert+Tab, Jaws read the name of the current page, so I
guess this might be solved with a Jaws script.
I have also tried the WXPerl demo.pl and I've seen that when the focus is
on
the first tab it doesn't read the name of that page even if I press
insert+tab. It just say "Tab".
I haven't tried too much and I thought it is not accessible when I've seen
that it doesn't talk on insert+tab and neither when using the arrow keys.
But I like that it works with Control+tab and control+Shift+tab for moving
the focus to prior or next page.
I don't know if this is built in, but I hope it is.
Win32::GUI and Java SWT don't have these hotkeys built in.
You convinced me to try more serious WXPerl, even if I don't like its
syntax
(even if I won't create another wrapper for it that make it work like
Win32::GUI :-)
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
I just looked at the WxPerl samples from
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/wxperl/wxperl-0.26-samples.zip
The controls.pl program includes a tab control that seems accessible.
It does not respond to Control+PageUp/Down, but does respond to
Control+Tab/Shift+Tab. One can also arrow from one tab page label to
another.
I did have to comment out the statement beginning on line 1142 for the
program to run with my Perl installation.
Regarding writing friendlier wrappers for WxPerl, I think you would only
need to do this once for each class because the methods for the class are
generally not going to change from one version to another (that would
break existing code). It seems that newer versions add support for more
Wx classes, particularly graphically oriented ones, rather than changing
existing ones. I think you could safely stay with the last stable build
for the forseeable future.
Regarding how much of WxWidgets is wrapped by WxPerl, my impression
was different when browsing the documentation. I noticed that almost
everything of interest to me, including standard controls and common
dialogs, was wrapped. Wx features not wrapped were likely to be
possible via other established Perl libraries.
Jamal
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007,
Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:25:06 +0300
> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
>
> I have tested the WXPerl demo program included in the package of WXPerl,
> but
> I found that some of controls are not accessible. I think one of them is
> a
> tab control.
>
> Have you found it accessible?
>
> I am asking this, because I thought the same about Win32::GUI when I
> tried
> the demos. They are not using the -dialogui => 1 option, so they weren't
> able to be used with the keyboard. Maybe I should also change the WXPerl
> demo a little to make it more friendly.
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
>
>
> Yes, I think the problem is that those Win32 controls are not as
> accessible as you would like. As far as I can tell, the Wx TabControl
> is called a NoteBook. It appears to be as accessible as most Win32 tab
> controls, e.g., based on the Python sample installed by default at
> c:\program files\wxPython2.8 Docs and Demos\demo\Notebook.py
>
> For anyone interested in learning the capabilities of the Wx library, I
> suggest examining the extensive samples available for Python. You can
> download and run the installers listed below for all components needed
> to develop with Python for Windows.
>
> Jamal
>
> Python 2.5 for Windows
> http://python.org/ftp/python/2.5.1/python-2.5.1.msi
>
> Python Extensions for Windows
>
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/pywin32/pywin32-210.win32-py2.5.exe?modtime=1159009392&big_mirror=0&filesize=4351705
>
> wxPython for Windows
>
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/wxpython/wxpython2.8-win32-unicode-2.8.6.0-py25.exe
>
> wxPython Docs and Demos
>
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/wxpython/wxpython2.8-win32-docs-demos-2.8.6.0.exe
>
>
>
> On
> Tue, 23 Oct 2007,
> Octavian Rasnita
> wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:58:24 +0300
> > From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
> >
> > Yes I found that the WX html widget is not accessible and the tab
> > control
> > neither.
> >
> > There are other controls which are not accessible, but I guess not
> > because
> > of WX, but because those Win32 controls are not accessible.
> >
> > I am talking about the tool bar controls and the scroll bar controls,
> > and
> > maybe there are others...
> >
> > Octavian
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:57 PM
> > Subject: RE: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
> >
> >
> > Almost every language uses a GUI library rather than having that
> > support
> > as native syntax. Can you give a specific example of a problem with
> > Wx
> > accessibility? On Windows, Wx wraps standard Windows controls, so
> > MSAA
> > support comes automatically.
> >
> > Jamal
> > On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Ken Perry wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:42:57 -0700
> > > From: Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: RE: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
> > >
> > >
> > > They might but what then are we showing how to make something in the
> > > language or how to make something using Xwidgets. I also am not
> > > happy
> > > with
> > > how some of the xwidget demos work with speech output.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal
> > > Mazrui
> > > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:18 AM
> > > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: RE: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
> > >
> > > I think at least some of those languages have wrappers for the
> > > WxWidgets
> > > GUI
> > > library.
> > > Jamal
> > > On Sun, 21 Oct 2007, Ken Perry wrote:
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:10:31 -0700
> > > > From: Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: RE: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The problem with Haskell, LUA, and Objective Caml which are all
> > > > languages I have thought of doing one in are they do not have an
> > > > easy
> > > > way to access the
> > > > Win32 environment or some way to create a dialog type application.
> > > > I
> > > > keep them on the list of programs I will write one in but haven't
> > > > got
> > > > around to it because it is almost as much work as the one I wrote
> > > > in
> > > > LISP. If someone writes them first more power to them but what
> > > essentially these will end up
> > > > being is direct calls to Win32 and a bit of the programming
> > > > languages
> > > > structure and syntax.
> > > >
> > > > When I came up with the Fruit Basket idea I didn't think of this
> > > > kind
> > > > of language maybe we should come up with another test program that
> > > > instead of displaying a graphical interface does a lot of work
> > > > like
> > > > looping, conditionals, functions or methods, Not really to do
> > > > anything important but to show what the language is like when
> > > > using
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal
> > > > Mazrui
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:05 AM
> > > > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: Re: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
> > > >
> > > > Would you consider doing one in Groovy? How about JRuby? I would
> > > > also like to see ones in LUA, Delphi, and Haskell.
> > > >
> > > > When IronRuby is released by Microsoft, I will try to do one in
> > > > that
> > > > language. It is analagous to IronPython -- in this case, a full
> > > > Ruby
> > > > implementation built on the .NET platform.
> > > >
> > > > Jamal
> > > > On Sat, 20 Oct
> > > > 2007, Veli-Pekka Tätilä wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:46:22 +0300
> > > > > From: Veli-Pekka Tätilä <vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: Re: Fruit basket program in Boo, Other Script Langs
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi list,
> > > > > Interesting to see more exotic scripting langs like Boo here.
> > > > > Does
> > > > > anyone here know Lua, by the way?
> > > > > Another lang that should be included is the Java way into
> > > > > scripting,
> > > > > namely Groovy:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groovy_%28programming_language%29
> > > > >
> > > > > What's the MS equivalent, i.e. is there a .NET based scripting
> > > > > language out there? I do know there's VBA and the Windows Power
> > > > > Shell but not sure if I'd classify either as a scripting lang
> > > > > directly. More like domain specific environments.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä
> > > > > (vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> > > > > Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
> > > > > http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila
> > > > >
> > > > > Jamal Mazrui wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From the zip archive at
> > > > > > http://www.EmpowermentZone.com/boo_fruit.zip
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This fruit basket program is written in Boo -- Full source
> > > > > > code
> > > > > > in the zip archive and pasted below. The batch file
> > > > > > compile.bat
> > > > > > invokes the command-line compiler for this scripting language.
> > > > > > The resulting executable, boo_fruit.exe, is about 12K in size.
> > > > > > No
> > > > > > other files are needed to run the program -- as long as the
> > > > > > .NET
> > > > > > Framework 2.0 is installed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Boo borrows syntax from Python, seeks to improve it, and
> > > > > > combine
> > > > > > strengths of both static and dynamic languages. Its home page
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > at http://boo.codehaus.org Boo resources, including the
> > > > > > interpreter, compiler, documentation, and examples are
> > > > > > available
> > > > > > from
> > > there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am still learning Boo, but was able to produce a working
> > > > > > program
> > > > > > by converting the first C# fruit basket program I did via a
> > > > > > web
> > > > > > form available at
> > > > > > http://codeconverter.sharpdevelop.net/Convert.aspx
> > > > > > For comparison, the C# code is available in the file
> > > > > > cs_fruit.cs.
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