Re: Dang it!!
- From: "Rick Harmon" <rickharmon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:10:45 -0400
I believe but am not 100 percent certain but I think it's who ever files the
patent first.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Perry
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: Dang it!!
I have to also ask how the heck they can do this when Ramon had it on
emacspeak almost from day one.
Ken
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From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:41 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Dang it!!
what about the fact that he developed this on his own before he found out
about the jaws version, if it is different enough, he may be able to carry it
through if he stops looking at the jaws version and continue developing along
his own, un influenced lines?
• For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links
to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
• to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Hofstader
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: Dang it!!
The JAWS Speech and Sounds Manager, a cool feature, is covered by both US
and EU patent protection. You can search for the US patent on the USPTO web
site. It names me and some others as inventors. If you followed FS v.
Serotek, in the trademark dispute, you should tread lightly in areas for which
they have documented legal protection as, in both US and EU, you would be
subject to triple damages if found guilty of knowingly (which you have
pronounced in your last email) violated FS' patented intellectual property.
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From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of dusty bray
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 1:25 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Dang it!!
i'm so steamed!! It appears JAWS thought of this sound scheme idea first.
i really had to hunt for it, but i found it deep in some menus. And i don't
think it just associates with a list of words; i think it actually associates
with control types like mine does. Dang it!
Oh well, but i will make it popular! smile. And hopefully i won't be sued
by JAWS; it's a great idea and i think it could really advance the blind
community if it were universally accepted someday. i think JAWS' version is a
little different simply because they don't define a set of default sounds. You
have to set each one yourself, don't you? So if nothing else, i would like to
promote a standard set of sounds just as sighted users have a universally
recognized set of icons.
Well, thanks so much, everyone, for letting me know about this feature in
JAWS. i'm going to go sulk now. smile
dusty.......
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From: jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:04:20 -0400
Hi Dusty,
JAWS has a speach and sounds manager. It allows any word that JAWS is
pronouncing to either be associated with a sound or use a sound to substitute
for a word.
While this mechanism can be used to approximate the behavior of your web
page editor, it does not truly recognize the types of objects on the screen.
I have made this adjustment in my dictionary manager so that I hear a
harp string instead of the word "link" a million times when I read a web page.
This one change alone has sped up my web access and made life much less
annoying for me.
Using sounds in a way that does not interfere with the user hearing the
text may very well speed up access. Any improvement in this area is a welcome
change.
Thanks for trying this idea. I'll give it a try.
Regards,
Jim
jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
"Everything is easy when you know how."
----- Original Message -----
From: John Greer
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
Well to tell you the truth, I have known some blind persons to assign
sounds to every event that can be assigned in Windows. So you also have to
plan for those people too. I would also have to agree, there should also be an
option to not use the sounds. The screen reader however would still need to
identify the elements that the sounds are identifying though. For example,
instead of having a pop sound to identify a Submit button that is red, the
screen reader should say red Submit button.
----- Original Message -----
From: dusty bray
To: programmingblind@freelistsorg
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:09 AM
Subject: RE: Web Page Editor for the Blind
i could always use a good "boing" sound. smile. But i would certainly
accompny it with some kind of text of course. You know, it's really hard to
find good, free sound effects. i'll have to check out clipmate.
Well, i see what you're saying about sounds clashing, and that is
another good reason to allow the user to turn sounds off. However, how often
do applications make sounds when objects receive focus? They usually accompany
an action, like a button click. So, i wouldn't think these sounds would get in
the way very often.
dusty.......
> From: leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:34:08 -0400
>
> Well, all I can say is I have a great "boing" sound for an error
condition.
> but then again, text describing the error would really be more
relevant than
> and boing...
>
> If you want to hear some great sound effects, check out the old
clipmate
> clibpoard manager for windows. I loved using the various features so I
> could hear how it sounded, and indeed the sounds were helpful. But
this
> brings up the problem of your program having sounds that might clash
with
> another program. Just a thought.
> Good luck and happy hacking.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew2007" <matthew2007@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 10:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
>
>
> This method of generating audio icons is interesting. It does appear
to hold
> the potential of speeding up computing, but it might have a steep
learning
> curve as the new user will have to take lots of time out to learn the
sounds
> then create the mental associations with the sound and the intended
action.
> In other words, there is a possibility of new users giving up on it
as they
> might deem it much more difficult to use than the more common methods
of
> computing. That is, it will be easier for them to know what to do
with an
> audio message telling them "Ok," than an audio message telling them
"beep
> beep." Now that I think of it, if you attach piano sounds to the
audio-icons
> you might end up composing quite a musical piece and not even know it.
>
> Then again there is the noise factor as all these strange sounds
might annoy
> or at the very least distract others in the vicinity.
>
> I do believe that your audio-icons do have great potential in that
they can
> be of great use to power users that only need that tiny hint of
reassurance
> they're moving along and clicking what they intend to click.
>
> "Oh wait," I just thought of something, doesn't this type of computing
> already exist to some extent within the Jaws speech and sounds
manager?
>
> Regardless, I would continue exploring this interaction channel as it
might
> ultimately yield lots of efficiency for the proficient blind computer
user.
>
> Thanks,
> Matthew
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "dusty bray" <dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:19 PM
> Subject: RE: Web Page Editor for the Blind
>
>
> >
> > Yeah, you're definitely right, inthane-- it should have an option
to turn
> > off the sounds, but this version is severely lacking in many, many
ways
> > right now. i just wanted to give everyone an idea of how this system
> > works.
> >
> > And honestly, i think if i gave that option initially, then
everyone would
> > just turn it off and not actually try to make it work smile. i
> > anticipate this being somewhat of a learning curve because the user
has to
> > build mental connections between a sound and its meaning. In the
same
> > way, users had difficulty transitioning from command line to
Windows based
> > operating systems because the graphical symbols were totally
unfamiliar at
> > first. But today, there exists a universally recognized set of
graphics
> > for identifying objects, and these graphics allow sighted users to
work
> > more efficiently now. i see an opportunity to use background noises
for
> > the same purpose. You could fit a lot of useful information in that
empty
> > space.
> >
> > Of course, Windows has already tried to incorporate sounds into the
> > interface, but these sounds were used very inappropriately. Instead
of
> > associating objects with sounds, they associated actions with
sounds,
> > which gives information after the fact. So even as i use this new
system,
> > i'm having to consciously reprogram myself not to think of these
sounds as
> > actions but as markers for object types.
> >
> > But i do want to know if people find this particular set of sounds
> > overbearing. Should i adjust the volumes? Can you hear the voice
clearly
> > over the sounds?
> >
> > Also, did you ever recieve my original message?? That's really
strange.
> > It's still programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, right?
> >
> > Ok, well definitely give me your oppinion if you get a chance to
use the
> > software. Thanks,
> >
> > dusty.......
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: Web Page Editor for the Blind
> >> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:23:42 -0700
> >>
> >> interesting, I got your reply to Dusty's message, but haven't
received
> >> the
> >> original even yet, hmmmmm!
> >>
> >> I haven't tried your ap yet Dusty, but it would be nice if you
could
> >> reverse
> >> things, in other words, turn off the added sounds, and return it
to full
> >> speaking of the items, since I don't do well with sounds, maybe a
check
> >> box
> >> in an options menu/dialog for changing it, giving the user the
choice?
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> inthane
> >> ? For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs,
and
> >> Links
> >> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit
me at:
> >> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> >> ? to be able to view a simple programming project in several
programming
> >> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> >> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John covici" <covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:49 PM
> >> Subject: Web Page Editor for the Blind
> >>
> >>
> >> >I wonder if it would work with hardware speech at all since the
speech
> >> > and the sound may get out of sync? Ever test this?
> >> >
> >> > on Wednesday 10/10/2007 dusty bray(dusty_bray@xxxxxxxxxxx) wrote
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi everybody,
> >> > >
> >> > > i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate the Web page editor
that
> >> > > i$,1rym starting and give some feedback.
> >> > >
> >> > > i$,1rym incorporating some cool features into this program
that i
> >> > > hope
> >> > > will allow blind users to easily create content-rich Web pages.
> >> > > i$,1rym especially excited about the mathematical expression
editor.
> >> > > And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of the other surprises
i$,1ryve
> >> > > added.
> >> > >
> >> > > This application also introduces a new concept for quickly
> >> > > differentiating between controls in the editor$,1rys
interface. In
> >> > > applications designed for sighted users, components are
visually
> >> > > distinct: buttons appear raised, text boxes appear inset, and
each
> >> > > item
> >> > > differs in some way that suggests its intended function. Page
> >> > > Designer
> >> > > achieves this effect auditorily. The application plays
programmatic
> >> > > sounds in parallel with voice output to quickly identify both
an
> >> > > object$,1rys type and its value. So rather than speaking "OK
> >> > > button",
> >> > > the editor speaks "OK" and plays a popping sound at the same
moment,
> >> > > effectively saving half the number of syllables. Textboxes are
> >> > > associated with a tapping sound; picture boxes are accompanied
by the
> >> > > sound of a camera shutter; the volume of a radio button$,1rys
sound
> >> > > varies depending its selection state.
> >> > >
> >> > > Visit this link to download the application:
> >> > >
http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip
> >> > > The executable is named here-i-am_page-designer.
> >> > >
> >> > > Please have patience with it. This is only a beta version of
the
> >> > > program. Also, the interface is very different and takes some
> >> > > getting
> >> > > used to.
> >> > >
> >> > > i hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve changed the
> >> > > navigation keys to ensure my program doesn$,1ryt conflict. As
> >> > > before,
> >> > > the navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy with
parent
> >> > > nodes
> >> > > corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and child nodes
> >> > > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see more
details of
> >> > > an
> >> > > object, press spacebar. If at any point you becomes lost,
pressing
> >> > > Escape will move the selection up one level of abstraction,
revealing
> >> > > a
> >> > > "bigger picture".
> >> > >
> >> > > Unfortunately, this program is still far from the screen
reader i
> >> > > envision. This is just a self-voicing application, and the
objects
> >> > > do
> >> > > not correspond to actual objects on the screen, so it probably
lacks
> >> > > much of the functionality to which you may be accustomed. But
i feel
> >> > > like i$,1rym slowly getting closer.
> >> > >
> >> > > Hope you enjoy it,
> >> > >
> >> > > dusty.......
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
_________________________________________________________________
> >> > > Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger
> >> > > Caf,Ai.
> >> > > Stop by today.
> >> > >
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline<html>
> >> > > <head>
> >> > > <style>
> >> > > .hmmessage P
> >> > > {
> >> > > margin:0px;
> >> > > padding:0px
> >> > > }
> >> > > body.hmmessage
> >> > > {
> >> > > FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
> >> > > FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
> >> > > }
> >> > > </style>
> >> > > </head>
> >> > > <body class='hmmessage'>
> >> > > Hi everybody,<br><br>i$,1rym looking for people to evaluate
the Web
> >> > > page editor that i$,1rym starting and give some
> >> > > feedback.<br><br>i$,1rym incorporating some cool features
into this
> >> > > program that i hope will allow blind users to easily create
> >> > > content-rich
> >> > > Web pages. i$,1rym especially excited about the
mathematical
> >> > > expression editor. And i think you$,1ryll enjoy some of
the
> >> > > other surprises i$,1ryve added.<br><br>This application also
> >> > > introduces a new concept for quickly differentiating between
controls
> >> > > in
> >> > > the editor$,1rys interface. In applications designed for
sighted
> >> > > users, components are visually distinct: buttons appear
raised, text
> >> > > boxes appear inset, and each item differs in some way that
suggests
> >> > > its
> >> > > intended function. Page Designer achieves this effect
auditorily. The
> >> > > application plays programmatic sounds in parallel with voice
output
> >> > > to
> >> > > quickly identify both an object$,1rys type and its value. So
rather
> >> > > than speaking "OK button", the editor speaks "OK" and plays a
popping
> >> > > sound at the same moment, effectively saving half the number of
> >> > > syllables. Textboxes are associated with a tapping sound;
picture
> >> > > boxes
> >> > > are accompanied by the sound of a camera shutter; the volume
of a
> >> > > radio
> >> > > button$,1rys sound varies depending its selection
> >> > > state.<br><br>Visit
> >> > > this link to download the application:
> >> > >
http://here-i-am.sourceforge.net/downloads/Here-I-Am_Page-Designer1.zip<br>The
> >> > > executable is named here-i-am_page-designer.<br><br>Please have
> >> > > patience
> >> > > with it. This is only a beta version of the
program.
> >> > > Also,
> >> > > the interface is very different and takes some getting used
> >> > > to.<br><br>i
> >> > > hate making concessions for JAWS, but i$,1ryve changed the
> >> > > navigation
> >> > > keys to ensure my program doesn$,1ryt conflict. As
before, the
> >> > > navigation model arranges content into a hierarchy with parent
nodes
> >> > > corresponding to higher levels of abstraction and child nodes
> >> > > corresponding to lower levels of abstraction. To see more
details of
> >> > > an
> >> > > object, press spacebar. If at any point you becomes lost,
pressing
> >> > > Escape will move the selection up one level of abstraction,
revealing
> >> > > a
> >> > > "bigger picture".<br><br>Unfortunately, this program is still
far
> >> > > from
> >> > > the screen reader i envision. This is just a self-voicing
> >> > > application, and the objects do not correspond to actual
objects on
> >> > > the
> >> > > screen, so it probably lacks much of the functionality to
which you
> >> > > may
> >> > > be accustomed. But i feel like i$,1rym slowly getting
> >> > > closer.<br><br>Hope you enjoy
it,<br><br>dusty.......<br><br><br
> >> > > /><hr
> >> > > />Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger
> >> > > Caf,Ai. <a
> >> > >
href='http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline'
> >> > > target='_new'>Stop by today!</a></body>
> >> > > </html>
> >> > --
> >> > Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question
is:
> >> > How do
> >> > you spend it?
> >> >
> >> > John Covici
> >> > covici@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'カ翰学ョf渇旛jxハ恭・xjリカ淌 ュ迥ヒ「ク・嘯カ・nX
> >> __________
> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
> > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
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