Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO

  • From: Chris Hofstader <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 09:58:28 -0400

Oracle may not "own" mysql and definitely does not own the version forked from 
the code base into a separate line of development entirely outside of Oracle.

Oracle is claiming that they "own" the mysql copyright. If *anyone* in the wild 
contributed as little as a single line of code to the project, even if they did 
so anonymously, they also own part of that copyright. Also, if anyone working 
at Sun had not signed an assignment of copyright agreement, they too own part 
of the copyrighted source code. Thus, although they claim they will change the 
license, they may not e ale to do so in a manner that would hold up in a 
courtroom.

Oracle can add proprietary and very pretty UI elements that call into mysql to 
their heart's content. These will, knowing Oracle's track record, not be FLOSS 
and, also following Oracle's history, will, at best, probably be only partially 
accessible.

The only accessibility engineers remaining at Oracle are Peter and the 
accessibility people working on OpenOffice, another FLOSS project that Oracle 
is trying to make proprietary. Regarding the office suite, Oracle can make a 
proprietary fork and stop contributing to the FLOSS version. To this end a 
group of people have banded together to form the Document Foundation and have 
rebranded OpenOffice.org as LibreOffice. We at FSF/GNU see LibreOffice 
accessibility as essential to the future of an accessible planet and will be 
involved at some level in the new fork.

cdh
 
On Oct 11, 2010, at 4:14 AM, Kerneels Roos wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I read some blogs on the recent Oracle World and Java One conference held by 
> Oracle. It seems they are, as we expected, a much more business savvy company 
> than Sun was. The former Java One confernces were very much developer minded, 
> while the recent one presented by Oracle gave the indication that they are 
> far more business minded and are working strategically towards set goals.
> 
> Very interesting development is their plans for MySQL which they apparently 
> also own now, in particular their plans to develop very nice user interfaces 
> for managing MySQL databases so that there will be greater adoption of it in 
> the Windows + Visual Studio world. Their ideal would be to have MySQL 
> integrate directly with Visual Studio, but I'm digressing...
> 
> Since Oracle wants to make profit mostly (or only) and maintain a nice public 
> profile, it would be up to the stake holders in Java Accessibility to 
> convince them that it is indeed in their best interest to give it a high 
> priority. If by reasoning about it we can come to the conclusion that there 
> is no real advantage for them in investing in furthering Java Accessibility 
> then another route needs to be perseued. Such another route might be an open 
> source development of the JAB, a third party development of the JAB.
> 
> We want access to be free, but if for a small price you could get an up to 
> date JAB that makes Java extremely accessible then that is better than the 
> alternative of no, or out dated access.
> 
> I believe that if one can convince a company nicely that accessibility is 
> important then they will do a good job at it, as aposed to it being a legally 
> enforced thing, or a pressured thing. I agree with another person on this 
> list, think it was Tylor, that asking people nicely to change their web sites 
> RE accessible captchas for example is far better than screaming at them over 
> email. All the more so if you can give them food for thought in terms of 
> numbers.
> 
> If it's a better idea to have foundations for the blind interacting with 
> Oracle about this then we as the community need to first approach our local 
> and international foundations. There is so much that can be done, like 
> pettitions, fund raising, awareness, pressure from the general public, 
> pressure from M$, pressure from their clients that are far removed from 
> accessibility issues but that do have a morral concions.
> 
> Java is a great language to program in if you are blind due to it's verbose 
> nature and well thought out standard libraries. Oracle's plans (to my best 
> judgement) for Java is long but over. They are also planning more JDK 
> releases by spreading future features over the various releases. On top of 
> that, there are millions of lines of legacy Java that will have to be 
> maintained for many years to come, so a career as a Java Programmer will 
> remain a good choice for blind programmers regardless, but it would be so 
> much better if it is certain that Oracle will strive to improve Java 
> accessibility onwards.
> 
> So what would be the next step?
> 
> Regards,
> Kerneels
> 
> 
> On 10/11/2010 3:11 AM, Stanzel, Susan - Kansas City, MO wrote:
>> Hi Listers,
>> 
>> I have not stepped into this until now. I would hope that needing government 
>> contracts in the United States would have some affect on all this. I have 
>> asked people about swing and I am told it isn't used very much because there 
>> is newer technology out there. I am not an experienced Java programmer so 
>> maybe the rest of you will know more than I do. I know we use Struts at my 
>> building for creation of web projects. If I have just made a fool of myself, 
>> it's not the first time and won't be the last. (grin).
>> 
>> Susie Stanzel
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
>> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 7:08 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> hey, this is my usual line, "beat them into submission" lol
>> 
>> or hound,or pummel,  or...
>> 
>> elf
>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>> for blind computer users and programmers
>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sina Bahram"<sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 10:14 AM
>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>> 
>> 
>>> Wow, it only took like 15 emails on the subject, but finally the voice of
>>> reason has made itself known.
>>> 
>>> Ken, I completely agree. Now is the time to pressure them into actually
>>> not abandoning it.
>>> 
>>> Take care,
>>> Sina
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> 
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 1:10 AM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If this is true then it's not time to tell people to stay away.  It's time
>>> to get people to get active and start emailing and
>>> calling them till they do support it.  If we stay away we lose what
>>> accessibility was there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Storm Dragon
>>> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:09 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: Credible rumor that deserves serious consideration, IMHO
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> I would not doubt it for one second. They dropped the ball on Linux
>>> accessibility pretty much first thing when they took over Sun.
>>> It's probably a good idea, if you have influence over software decisions,
>>> to encourage companies, clients, and friends to stay far
>>> far away from Oracle and their software. I was even going to get rid of
>>> Open Office but fortunately the version used in Ubuntu is a
>>> fork so not subject to them. unless, that is, they somehow manage to win
>>> their evil attack on Google. If that happens, who knows who
>>> they will attack next. Keep your fingers crossed, and maybe the open
>>> source community will keep the Bridge going, Orca is still
>>> alive and well after all.
>>> Storm
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Registered Linux user number 508465:
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> My blog, Thoughts of a Dragon:
>>> http://www.stormdragon.us/
>>> Get yourself a Frostbox:
>>> http://www.frostbitesystems.com/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 2010-10-09 at 08:15 +0530, prateek aggarwal wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> oh know,
>>> i wish its just a rumor.
>>> if its ever going to be true, i'll be so said.
>>> 
>>> regards,
>>> prateek agarwal.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/9/10, Jamal Mazrui<empower@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>> I heard from a good source today that Oracle has decided to discontinue
>>>> support for the Java Access Bridge (and no alternative is planned).  I
>>>> would be glad to be convinced otherwise.  If anyone has information
>>>> regarding this topic, please share.
>>>> 
>>>> Jamal
>>>> 
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> 
> -- 
> Kerneels Roos
> Cell: +27 (0)82 309 1998
> Skype: cornelis.roos
> 
> "Common Sense" is not "Common Practice" .
> 
> "The Strawberry Jam Law:
>  The wider you spread it, the thinner it gets..."
>   -- from the Java Specialist Newsletter, from a book on consulting.
> 
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