Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included

yes, Ken,
but here we depend on manufacturers to provide the correct drivers, or we must buy a third party driver. For example I had a Canon i320 printer and in 2005 I tried using fedora core 3 and I remember that I didn't find drivers for my printer, only turbo print which wanted money on its driver other way it will prin their logo on every page.
Now i have an hp c4280 and it commed with linux drivers by default.
Also I have an external tv tunner from kworld and I didn't succeeded at that tuime to make it work under fedora core 3. I don't tell this things to talk against linux, I like linux, but there are some things that don't work. It is right that as a good consumer, if I want linux, I must pay more attention when I buy a peripheral, to check if the manufacturer offers linux drivers. This is the right way, not to buy a component and after blame linux that you don't find drivers for it.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included




I have never had trouble doing anything you're talking about. I am not sure
about the active X stuff however because I have never had to.  There is of
course a PDF saving option and as for the printing and networking I think
Linux works better than windows.

ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:36 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included

That's very good. I was pretty content of Jaws 4, so it is great if Orca
would be so good.

But as you said, you need to know how to use it and also know how to use
Linux, and knowing how to use a new OS involves time and need to do it.

I have read very many iT books, especially about programming, web design,
graphic design and desktop publishing (this when I was sighted), or about
databases and so on, but I have never read a book about how to use Windows, and I expect the same thing from Linux. Otherwise it means that Linux is not

as intuitive as Windows, and this is less accessible because it requires a
bigger effort and more time to learn it.

But if you say that Firefox with Orca under Linux and Open Office with Orca under Linux are more accessible than the same programs under Windows, it is pretty fine, although they should be better accessible than IE and Jaws and
MS Office and Jaws.

I have tried Open Office with Jaws under Windows, but it was not as
accessible as MS Office, so we should compare Open Office with Orca under
Linux with Jaws and MS Office under Windows.
And if we are so interested in advanced things, we should also keep in mind
that MS Office offers some features which are not offered by Open Office,
and maybe they will never be.

For example, I use to receive pretty often .doc files from my colleagues
that contain ActiveX objects with Excel tables in them, and I need to
convert the .doc files to .pdf and put in a web page.
Is Open Office able to understand those ActiveX objects and convert them
correctly when converting the whole .doc file to .pdf?

And there are many small things like this that I might need to do and I am
afraid that I might not be able to do them, and this means that I can't
access some things under Linux, not because the screen reader can't read it,

but because the OS doesn't support it.

A colleague of mine decided to install Linux on his computer, because it was

convinced by the system admin which is a Linux lover, however after a time
he started to have problems like not beeing able to print to all the
printers from our network and other small problems like this and I really
don't want to make tests and try to see if everything it works under Windows

work under Linux.


Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:53 AM
Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included




Ok I need to clear up my previous statement. I said it was around the 3.3 jaws stage. I meant that only in how easy it is to use. The fact is orca
is already more powerful than Jaws 3.3 it is closer to jaws 4.5 which is
when it got useful in XP the problem is there are times when Orca will
crash
and if you are not a geek some times its hard to get running.  It's also
got
a bit harder to use interface because there is just so many options.  For
example if you run up orca in Ubuntu 8.04 and go into firefox and don't
know
that you have to do insert f-12 and change it to orca bindings you will
find
that firefox is a bit clugy.  If you do know to switch it you will find
that
firefox works better than with Jaws.  You will also find that the Pigeon
communication client is harder to use than that of Aim, msn, and or skype
but if you learn to use it you will find it is more powerful and covers a
lot more messaging protocols.  You will also find that Open office
actually
runs good with Orca where it just runs with Jaws. The one thing they have to do in Linux is get a OCR program without an OCR program that works good
it just is not worth it I can't scan books or bills or nothing and the
free
ocr program google has right now is not ready for prime time but that
could
change rapidly so I am always hoping.

So when I say it's at the jaws 3.3 range I should say in interface and
ease
to learn and use.  When it comes to power its better than 3.3 but it's
still
not up to Windows eyes 7 or Jaws 7 or system access standards yet but it
is
getting there fast.

I haven't tried the sun java developer but I hear its fully accessible
with
Orca and if that's true that's really cool so I will give that a shot next
time I get one of those rare free moments.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
Rasnita
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:41 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included

Well that's not good news. :-(
I've started to use Jaws from the version 3.6 or 3.8 or something like
that,

and if you say that Orca compares with Jaws 3.3, it means that it is even
less advanced than what I thought.

But OpenSolaris isn't Unix? It is just another distribution of Linux?

In my mind I always associated Sun with Unix because I thought that SunOS
and Solaris are Unix operating systems, and I also thought that Unix work
only on Unix servers and workstations, and only Linux is a kind of Unix
made

for PC.

But or I am wrong and Solaris is not Unix, or Sun fool us and use the same name of Solaris for 2 different operating systems, one of them beeing Unix
and the other one beeing a Linux distribution.

Can anyone make some light?

Thanks.



Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included



Actually both orca linux and Solaris are about the same.  I would put
them
around Jaws 3.3 access right now.  I run Ubuntu because it's the easiest
to
get working on my laptop.  I also run Redhat 9 on my server and have no
troubles with it if you don't mind hacking a bit.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian
Rasnita
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:50 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included

That's good news. Does OpenSolaris and Orca offer a better accessibility
than Windows with Jaws?

Or at least does it offer a better accessibility than Ubuntu with Orca?

Thanks.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included


yes, solaris is a unix platform and it suports orca.
at least for x86 cpu family
i've worked with solaris 10,
i've downloaded it from sun site for free.



----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included


Sorry, but I think you don't know what you are talking about.

First, I didn't say that Jaws is a Microsoft program. I said only that
the best accessibility is offered by Windows and Jaws and not by Orca
and
Linux, but not even the comparison between these 2 is important, but
the
fact that it is very hard to create another OS with another screen
reader
built in.

Second, I know that Orca works with Linux, but Sun doesn't pretend that
they've created the most advanced Linux OS, but that they've created
Solaris, the most advanced OS.
However, Solaris is not accessible for the blind, or it is accessible
but
only by using emacspeak, which has a very ugly interface and offers a
poor accessibility anyway, and I haven't tested Solaris so I don't
really
know if it really supports emacspeak or it is just a future plan for
Sun.

By the way, have anyone tried Solaris?

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included


don't forget that jaws is not a microsoft software and, taking
software
only from the two grand companies, sun is better than microsoft.
Because, with orca you can do more than with narator from windows.
So Sun has right assuming it as the best company offering an advanced
os
with speak.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included


Windows is an operating system with speech included. Do you want to
create a
better OS than Windows and a better screen reader than Narrator?
I guess you want to create a better one, because otherwise... why
bother?

In order to do that, you should create a company, employ a few
thousands of
good programmers and after very many years you might do it.
Sun Microsystems has tens of thousands of programmers and they
pretend
that
they have created the most advanced operating system in the world,
and
they
have also made one of the most used screen readers for Linux, but the
accessibility offered by their solutions is much lower than the one
offered
by Windows and screen readers like Jaws, and Sun work on their OS for
very
many years, so... it could be very hard to do what you want.

Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose Lomeli" <jose.lomeli93@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:05 AM
Subject: Creating an Operating System with speech included


Hello; Listers, I just thought.  What do I have to do to create a
operating system with speech.  I just thought about this.  Can this
be
done? Please write back.
From Jose Lomeli.
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