yes, Ken,but here we depend on manufacturers to provide the correct drivers, or we must buy a third party driver. For example I had a Canon i320 printer and in 2005 I tried using fedora core 3 and I remember that I didn't find drivers for my printer, only turbo print which wanted money on its driver other way it will prin their logo on every page.
Now i have an hp c4280 and it commed with linux drivers by default.Also I have an external tv tunner from kworld and I didn't succeeded at that tuime to make it work under fedora core 3. I don't tell this things to talk against linux, I like linux, but there are some things that don't work. It is right that as a good consumer, if I want linux, I must pay more attention when I buy a peripheral, to check if the manufacturer offers linux drivers. This is the right way, not to buy a component and after blame linux that you don't find drivers for it.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech included
I have never had trouble doing anything you're talking about. I am not sureabout the active X stuff however because I have never had to. There is of course a PDF saving option and as for the printing and networking I think Linux works better than windows. ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian RasnitaSent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:36 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included That's very good. I was pretty content of Jaws 4, so it is great if Orca would be so good. But as you said, you need to know how to use it and also know how to use Linux, and knowing how to use a new OS involves time and need to do it. I have read very many iT books, especially about programming, web design, graphic design and desktop publishing (this when I was sighted), or aboutdatabases and so on, but I have never read a book about how to use Windows, and I expect the same thing from Linux. Otherwise it means that Linux is notas intuitive as Windows, and this is less accessible because it requires a bigger effort and more time to learn it.But if you say that Firefox with Orca under Linux and Open Office with Orca under Linux are more accessible than the same programs under Windows, it is pretty fine, although they should be better accessible than IE and Jaws andMS Office and Jaws. I have tried Open Office with Jaws under Windows, but it was not as accessible as MS Office, so we should compare Open Office with Orca under Linux with Jaws and MS Office under Windows.And if we are so interested in advanced things, we should also keep in mindthat MS Office offers some features which are not offered by Open Office, and maybe they will never be. For example, I use to receive pretty often .doc files from my colleagues that contain ActiveX objects with Excel tables in them, and I need to convert the .doc files to .pdf and put in a web page. Is Open Office able to understand those ActiveX objects and convert them correctly when converting the whole .doc file to .pdf? And there are many small things like this that I might need to do and I am afraid that I might not be able to do them, and this means that I can'taccess some things under Linux, not because the screen reader can't read it,but because the OS doesn't support it.A colleague of mine decided to install Linux on his computer, because it wasconvinced by the system admin which is a Linux lover, however after a time he started to have problems like not beeing able to print to all the printers from our network and other small problems like this and I reallydon't want to make tests and try to see if everything it works under Windowswork under Linux. Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 5:53 AM Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech includedOk I need to clear up my previous statement. I said it was around the 3.3 jaws stage. I meant that only in how easy it is to use. The fact is orcais already more powerful than Jaws 3.3 it is closer to jaws 4.5 which is when it got useful in XP the problem is there are times when Orca will crash and if you are not a geek some times its hard to get running. It's also got a bit harder to use interface because there is just so many options. For example if you run up orca in Ubuntu 8.04 and go into firefox and don't know that you have to do insert f-12 and change it to orca bindings you will find that firefox is a bit clugy. If you do know to switch it you will find that firefox works better than with Jaws. You will also find that the Pigeon communication client is harder to use than that of Aim, msn, and or skypebut if you learn to use it you will find it is more powerful and covers alot more messaging protocols. You will also find that Open office actuallyruns good with Orca where it just runs with Jaws. The one thing they have to do in Linux is get a OCR program without an OCR program that works goodit just is not worth it I can't scan books or bills or nothing and the free ocr program google has right now is not ready for prime time but that could change rapidly so I am always hoping. So when I say it's at the jaws 3.3 range I should say in interface and ease to learn and use. When it comes to power its better than 3.3 but it's still not up to Windows eyes 7 or Jaws 7 or system access standards yet but it is getting there fast. I haven't tried the sun java developer but I hear its fully accessible withOrca and if that's true that's really cool so I will give that a shot nexttime I get one of those rare free moments. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 1:41 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included Well that's not good news. :-( I've started to use Jaws from the version 3.6 or 3.8 or something like that, and if you say that Orca compares with Jaws 3.3, it means that it is even less advanced than what I thought. But OpenSolaris isn't Unix? It is just another distribution of Linux? In my mind I always associated Sun with Unix because I thought that SunOS and Solaris are Unix operating systems, and I also thought that Unix work only on Unix servers and workstations, and only Linux is a kind of Unix made for PC.But or I am wrong and Solaris is not Unix, or Sun fool us and use the same name of Solaris for 2 different operating systems, one of them beeing Unixand the other one beeing a Linux distribution. Can anyone make some light? Thanks. Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: RE: Creating an Operating System with speech includedActually both orca linux and Solaris are about the same. I would put them around Jaws 3.3 access right now. I run Ubuntu because it's the easiest to get working on my laptop. I also run Redhat 9 on my server and have no troubles with it if you don't mind hacking a bit. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:50 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech included That's good news. Does OpenSolaris and Orca offer a better accessibility than Windows with Jaws? Or at least does it offer a better accessibility than Ubuntu with Orca? Thanks. Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech includedyes, solaris is a unix platform and it suports orca. at least for x86 cpu family i've worked with solaris 10, i've downloaded it from sun site for free.----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech includedSorry, but I think you don't know what you are talking about. First, I didn't say that Jaws is a Microsoft program. I said only that the best accessibility is offered by Windows and Jaws and not by Orca and Linux, but not even the comparison between these 2 is important, but the fact that it is very hard to create another OS with another screen reader built in.Second, I know that Orca works with Linux, but Sun doesn't pretend thatthey've created the most advanced Linux OS, but that they've created Solaris, the most advanced OS. However, Solaris is not accessible for the blind, or it is accessible but only by using emacspeak, which has a very ugly interface and offers a poor accessibility anyway, and I haven't tested Solaris so I don't really know if it really supports emacspeak or it is just a future plan for Sun. By the way, have anyone tried Solaris? Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech includeddon't forget that jaws is not a microsoft software and, taking software only from the two grand companies, sun is better than microsoft. Because, with orca you can do more than with narator from windows. So Sun has right assuming it as the best company offering an advanced os with speak.----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Creating an Operating System with speech includedWindows is an operating system with speech included. Do you want to create a better OS than Windows and a better screen reader than Narrator? I guess you want to create a better one, because otherwise... why bother? In order to do that, you should create a company, employ a few thousands of good programmers and after very many years you might do it. Sun Microsystems has tens of thousands of programmers and they pretend that they have created the most advanced operating system in the world, and theyhave also made one of the most used screen readers for Linux, but theaccessibility offered by their solutions is much lower than the one offeredby Windows and screen readers like Jaws, and Sun work on their OS forvery many years, so... it could be very hard to do what you want. Octavian----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose Lomeli" <jose.lomeli93@xxxxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Creating an Operating System with speech includedHello; Listers, I just thought. What do I have to do to create a operating system with speech. I just thought about this. Can this be done? Please write back. 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