RE: C interpreter

Haha, indeed

A almost 40 year run is hardly something to scoff at. Of course, I'm sort of 
partial to lisp, myself, which has had more than 50
years in its current form, and what a language that is; however, as far as 
procedural goes, you're correct.

As we both said, I figure it's up to the individual person. In today's world, 
so much gets interpreted anyways, that the whole build
life cycle is blurred beyond recognition.

Take care,
Sina

________________________________

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels Roos
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 5:15 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: C interpreter


Oo... Bring in the fire hose, we've got some flames over here. Ha ha.

No, it's fine, I know you're not trying to give me a hard time, you are just 
passionate about C and it's weird depths, which is
cool!

But, the point of my email was not about if C is esoteric or notI was trying to 
point out that the basics of C is simpler than the
basics of Python. With Python you absolutely need an interpreter while learning 
it while with C you can get by without one, at least
at first, and that the most important *general* things C teaches you is better 
learned with code files and a compiler. But it's not
that important and if a interpreter makes you happy go for it.

I have a lot of respect for C as it played an important part in the development 
of programming languages and is still the low level
language of choice, as you pointed out the hole Linux kernel is written in C is 
it not? As is all those modules is it not?

If one is just starting to learn C it's going to be a while before you get to 
the weird and wonderful **esoteric** parts is it not?

C originated in 1973. It was the brain child of Dennis Richy who wanted to 
develop a language to program in so that there would be a
low level alternative to assembler, that also had more features than assembler. 
I bet there were improvements and additions to the
language over the years. What is really amazing is how the basic syntax have 
stuck around for so long and has influenced Java, Perl,
C#, C++, JavaScript, PHP and on and on.

Today one should only invest in learning C if you intend to do very low level 
programming, like hardware drivers, or very optimised
code that needs to run extremely fast. For anything else you'll do much better 
learning something modern. Oh, it's also good to look
into C should you desire to learn what it contributed to modern languages or if 
you want to do programming for devices where
resources are limited.

But all of this is just my opinion. I'm passionate about programming and would 
not want someone to waste their time on this or that
while it does not help them to further their actual goal.

Thanks


On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Sina Bahram <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


        Oh, I think it's useful.
        
        I must say, I loved this line:
        

        With C however the playing field is far less esoteric (to my 
knowledge). The important concepts that an imperative language
like C
        contributed to the world
        
        
        
        C is by far one of the more esoteric languages ever to come into 
existence, *grin*. The idioms used in that language are
enough to
        boggle the mind of anyone who has studied the basics of human 
psychology, how people learn, how humans communicate (both to
devices
        and other humans), etc, etc.
        
        Const pointers to non-const fields which are structs that have inlined 
arrays so as to avoid a pointer reference, which by
the way
        double inside of a union as a c-style string which is actually a 
pointer to itself as a form of optimizing the memory
packing of,
        blah, blah, blah, blah.
        
        And I didn't make that above thing up ... Haha, it's inside of most 
Linux kernel structures.
        
        
        But I'm not giving you a hard time or anything. The esoteric comment 
just caught my fancy.
        
        Oh, and I do agree, eventually, if you're going to be a hard core leet 
c haxor, then sure, process is important, but
interpreters
        are useful for exploration.
        
        Take care,
        Sina
        
        
        
        ________________________________
        
        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kerneels Roos
        Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:27 AM
        
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Re: C interpreter
        
        
        Hi. I can not imagine learning something like C by using an interpreter 
similar to the Python interpretor for example. With
Python
        it makes some sense since Python has list comprehensions like:
        [x for x in range(10) if x % 2 == 0]
        
        which will produce a list of even numbers, and things like array / list 
slices and even regular expressions.
        
        To test these things  on the fly an interpreter makes sense, or even 
small functions which you can just copy and paste into
the
        interpreter and then test them out there.
        
        With C however the playing field is far less esoteric (to my 
knowledge). The important concepts that an imperative language
like C
        contributed to the world of programming languages are, and hence what 
you want to learn from studying C are things like:
        variables and constatns
        arrays
        structs
        the concept of functions
        conditional statements
        loop constructs
        pointers
        bit wise operations
        input and output
        
        To me it makes much more sense to make use of code files and a compile, 
run, debug cycle to learn how al those work.
Especially if
        one is learning to program for the first time.
        
        Some of those concepts require a bit of setup code first, so would one 
have to type that into the interpreter then first
every time?
        
        I would advise you to stick to files and compiling and running your 
code -- that's how C works. Also, with an interpreter
you can
        get way different errors than with a compiler. At the end of the day 
your goal is to use a compiler, why not start with that
from
        square one?
        
        Hope this helps.
        
        
        
        On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Øyvind Lode <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:
        
        
               Ch is both a C and C++ interpreter apparently.
               I'll download it and have a look.
        
        
               -----Original Message-----
               From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        
               [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Arthur Pirika
               Sent: 22. juli 2010 18:29
               To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        
               Subject: Re: C interpreter
        
               I've been meaning to try that, also. I've heard it's good 
though, and
               wouldn't mind a c++ interpreter, if such a thing even exists? 
lol.
        
               Arthur
               ----- Original Message -----
               From: "Øyvind Lode" <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxxx>
               To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
               Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 3:56 AM
               Subject: C interpreter
        
        
               > Hi all:
               >
               > Does someone know a good C interpreter?
               > I'm trying to learn C and I would like a C interpreter to 
assist me.
               > It would be much faster to type some C statements in the 
interpreter and
               > get
               > the output instantly...
               >
               > I know it is very important to also learn to know your 
compiler, but for
               > fast testing of code I think an interpreter is useful.
               > I found one called Ch interpreter.
               > Have someone here used Ch?
               >
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        Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
        Skype: cornelis.roos
        
        
        
        
        
        
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-- 
Kerneels Roos
Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!




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