Re: C++ and I are getting divorced.

Hey Jim, I didn't mean to say RTFM about the FLOSS manual regarding bash - I had hoped to suggest it as part of a number of resources you might use to learn this stuff.


You can, if you like, call me anytime if you have a quickie problem and I'll try to help you out or find you someone who actually knows what he is talking about <laugh>.

HH,
cdh

On 07/28/2010 08:45 AM, Homme, James wrote:
Hi,
Related to this, I get really upset with people who simply say rtfm in response 
to questions, because the manuals stink for the most part. My favorite way to 
frustrate myself is to read man pages, and technical books written by 
programmers.

Jim

Jim Homme,
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-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:27 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jared Wright
Subject: Re: C++ and I are getting divorced.

I also meant to say that a beginner who asks about a starting language
on this list is probably not a computer science major wanting to learn
the theory and structure of computers and operating systems.  Rather,
they are probably a self-taught, part-time learner.  Even CS majors
usually start with Java these days rather than C, avoiding the
nightmares of memory management.

Jamal

On 7/28/2010 8:18 AM, Jamal Mazrui wrote:
I completely agree.  Just as it became generally no longer necessary to
learn about manipulating computer registers in assembler, it is no
longer necessary, in general, to learn about the memory management that
C requires. It is not helpful to send a beginner down the minefield of C
or C++ in the belief that it will build their character. I think it is
better to start with a language that is simpler and more forgiving, thus
giving them the experience of successful programming, including simple
GUIs after starting with console programs (hardly anyone develops a GUI
with native C anymore).

Building successful, genuinely useful programs increases one's
confidence and passion about the power of programming. Tripping over
every other step discourages one. I started with higher level languages,
have gone as low as C# afterward, and been gratified by the results of
that path.

I recommend that beginners start with AutoIT, Visual Basic .NET, Python,
or Ruby. Each of these has pros and cons, and I wish there was a single
language that combined the best of them. As the Sodbeans project grows
from experience, a beginner should also consider that environment.

Jamal

On 7/27/2010 3:22 PM, Jared Wright wrote:
I understand this prospective and started myself on C++, but think
there is a certain mindset that benefits from learning certain auxiliary
features later if possible. Think of it like a video game: the video
game only teaches you the gameplay elements that you need to progress to
the next level and teaches you more advanced concepts when a need for
their understanding arises. I think it's no secret that we learn faster
and in more useful ways in a video game setting than in the more
traditional academia computer science and so many other fields force
down students' throats.

Additionally, C++ is less used now for basic end user applications like
those you start programming with anyway. I think something like Perl or
Python is both a better initial launchpad as well as more practical in
the industry moving forward. You don't even really HAVE to learn C++
now, learning C# is almost more important. Yes you learn more about deep
programming concepts learning with it, but follow that logic and you
should learn in machine code, no? Even ten years ago C++ was such a
common language for so many types of programs. WE didn't have the nice
scripting language wrappers for low level functions that we enjoy now.
It made sense to learn it out of the gate, because it probably wasn't
going to be too long before you truly needed to write something real in
C++. Now its uses are more specialized, (and I'm talking relative to C++
ten years ago here) and I think this somewhat jeopardizes it as a good
starting language. Just my thoughts, of course.

On 07/27/2010 12:46 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:
Why something "forgivving," though? IMO it's much easier to learn with
something strict and move to other languages; not only will you code
better, but you will understand more about what's going on, rather
than just accept the fact that it does what you want however you may
write it.
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
http://tds-solutions.net
Twitter: sorressean

On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Alex Hall wrote:

JS because it is, as I said, quite forgiving, and it lets you practice
basics like looping and conditions without needing to worry about data
types or managing projects in a massive IDE. I do not recommend giving
up completely, rather, use another language to pin down the basics,
get good at that language, then come back to cpp to continue learning
it now that you have the concepts of OOP in your mind.

On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
javascript? Seriously? python was a good solution though, you just
need to
get used to indentation. Better to keep slogging along with cpp
than to
switch half way through, because essentially your just giving up on
something.
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
http://tds-solutions.net
Twitter: sorressean

On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Alex Hall wrote:

If you want to try programming, I recommend either Javascript (a web
language, but it is forgiving and easy to understand) or Python,
which
is, in my opinion, a lot easier than cpp. I definitely do not
recommend giving up. As Tyler said, everyone who learns to program
has
a rough time of it at first, but eventually you get better and learn
from past mistakes, and learning one language that you find you
like a
lot will help you learn other languages in the future, since they all
have the underlying principles of looping, conditions, functions, and
so on, though they all implement these in different ways.

On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
I guess, there is a better analogy. Nothing comes to you easy; you
need
to
crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Look at it like
playing an
instrument. You don't just sit down and pick up a complex song in 5
minutes.
Something that may help you is to go go look at code that does
what you
want. Google for like "c++ elseif" and see what pops up.
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
http://tds-solutions.net
Twitter: sorressean

On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:

If you want to give up after the first few syntax errors, go for
it.
Otherwise, keep working, your going through what everyone who
learns c++
did, and you'll get it.
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
http://tds-solutions.net
Twitter: sorressean

On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:52 AM, Jes wrote:

Lol thought I'd put a humorous subject in there to try and lift my
spirits a little bit. I've been working on a project for five days
straight, sacrificing sleep and other stuff to get the stupid
thing
done,
and I've decided that while I like programming, C++ is a bit to
complicated for me at this point. I am a musician, so after I
get this
beast of an assignment done, I'm divorcing C++ and moving back
to music
for a bit. Audio editors and sequencers all do whatever I tell
them
too,
they don't bitch at me like M S Visual Studio or GCC.
As the average pc user declares, "They, just, work. "
Grin. I won't be able to make anything more than simple
programs, no
matter how much I like programming.

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