Cool, lots of good ideas. For Sina, we can potentially talk about a paper this summer at the workshop. Stefik On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Sina Bahram <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Education just helps me fake it better, *smile*, but thanks for the kind > words. > > Take care, > Sina > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:20 AM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? > > Hi, > This is very well written, and well thought out. This is the best explanation > I have read by you, Sina. I understood it. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 10:51 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? > > A few comments: > > Nitpicky thing first: why just left control? Can you just have both control > keys perform a silence? > > With respect to auditory code completion, I think there are several issues. > > Note: I'd be interested in collaborating on a paper if any of these things > need to be flushed out more so than just an ideas list > for implementation. > > First, the notification to the user that code completion is occurring. > > Second: the specific code completion event going on, such as variable name, > attribute, method, parameter list or completion, etc. > note: for sure this can be implicit so as to follow appropriate semantic > prioritization techniques; however, the knowledge does need > to be transferred so that state can be maintained between the user's off > screen model, so to speak, and the model on screen. > > Third, within the code completion task, efficiency and specificity are of the > highest importance. I want to know only the > information I need, when I need it, and in as predictable and easy a way as > possible. This concept needs to be flushed out by > examples, and I'd be happy to talk to you about it over skype so that you can > listen to me use code completion to illustrate various > points. > > Fourth: I propose that there are two different modes to code completion. One, > less often used, is exploratory, and the more often > one is functional. In an exploratory use of code completion, I am interested > in learning about what this object can do, what the > different methods are, how they are overloaded, what parameters different > things take, what the various return types are, what > events I can implement, etc. etc. in a functional sense, I want to know > specifics about those things and mainly in such a way so as > to enter in the information efficiently and unobtrusively so that it doesn't > disturb the flow of my programming. Hint: the worst > possible thing is when code completion fills in parameters such as int1 or > param1, even though I already opened a set of parentheses > and have started typing in the number 42. > > I've got some other thoughts, if you're interested, but that's the general > overview. > > Take care, > Sina > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas Stefik > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 10:31 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? > > For the text-to-speech, our engine is pretty decent nowadays. If you > have a screen reader present, it just uses it. Otherwise, it finds > some kind of sensible default on your system and uses that. It's not > perfect, but it works under quite a few systems nowadays, which is > good. > > For Mike, yes, that's definitely possible. We were thinking that you > "can" listen to the examples and everything, but we also made sure > that everything is skippable. In other words, if you don't want to > listen to it, you can either 1) press escape to get out of it, 2) > press left control to tell the TTS engine to be quite, or 3) just > start typing to ignore it completely. Is that good enough or would you > still prefer a way to customize the audio for code completion further? > > Stefik > > > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Katherine Moss > <Katherine.Moss@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> I also think that you should offer a choice for either auditory code >> completion using both whatever screen reader is present on > the computer or one's own voice if they want it. More choices are better. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Malver >> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 3:16 PM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: RE: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? >> >> Could there be some sort of expertise feature? In theory, your netbeans mods >> will be used by professionals. I don't want to hear > a code sample every time I use code completion. The names of methods, and > perhaps a parameter list should be sufficient most times. >> Just a thought. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas Stefik >> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 2:05 PM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? >> >> Cool, thanks for the ideas folks. >> >> Can you think of anything specific to code completion that would be helpful. >> For example, right now, we have our code completion > 1) let you navigate aurally what methods are available, 2) when you "land" on > a particular method, it tells you the name of the > method, gives a description of what it does, then gives you a short code > example of how to use it. Should we change that in any way? > Should we add anything additional? >> >> I was also thinking of adding in a feature where, if you ever turn on code >> completion, it will "guess" what you can type next and > give you choices aurally. The idea would be that this could make it easier > for blind kids to not have to remember either the names > of methods nor the language itself, at least as much. Is that a good idea? > Bad idea? >> Worth my time? Not worth my time? >> >> >> Stefik >> >> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Jackie McBride <abletec@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Well, this might be a bit ambitious, Andreas, but... There are times >>> when we as blind people need to make pictorial representations & >>> charts. I'd like to see a system like turtle graphics implemented in >>> sodbeans (did u ever play w/that?) &, in addition, I'd like to get >>> audio feedback of what I'm drawing--thus, if I draw a diagonal line >>> from the lower left to the upper right of the screen, the sound would >>> start out low in my left ear, then increase in pitch & pan toward the >>> right till it reached its destination. Logo also has a "label" >>> command, whereby u could write text at a given point. It might not >>> make visual representations accessible to us, but it would allow us to >>> communicate w/our sighted colleagues in that way. >>> >>> Sorry if this wasn't exactly what you're lookin for. >>> >>> On 5/23/11, DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 >>> <jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> What would be even scarier would be if you had set the auditory >>>> completions to speak in your own voice and the computer refused to do >>>> so and put out another voice. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Katherine >>>> Moss >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 0:24 >>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: RE: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? >>>> >>>> I'd be a bit scared though if my computer started talking to me in my >>>> own voice, not to mention, driven up a Christmas tree, and down the >>>> sidewalk. LOL! >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DaShiell, >>>> Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 >>>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:46 PM >>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: RE: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? >>>> >>>> The problem with windows screen narrator is it doesn't sound like >>>> Steve Balmer. The problem with Apple is no Steve Jobs voice >>>> available for VoiceOver. Linux does have a little bit of the speech >>>> of Linus Torvalds though. Why not put your voice engrams into the >>>> system as at least one alternative and perhaps a female voice if one >>>> of the others who helped you on the project is female? Those could >>>> be put under voices of the implementers. Not too often does software come >>>> up that way. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas >>>> Stefik >>>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 15:13 >>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: Auditory Code Completion - any good ideas? >>>> >>>> Hey folks, >>>> >>>> I'm most of the way through a new auditory code completion system, >>>> which I'm putting into Sodbeans 2.0. Any feature requests for how it >>>> should sound? >>>> >>>> Stefik >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Blame the computer--why not? It can't defend itself & occasionally >>> might even be the culprit Jackie McBride Jaws Scripting training >>> materials: >>> www.screenreaderscripting.com >>> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net __________ View the list's >>> information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > > This e-mail and any attachments to it are confidential and are intended > solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are > addressed. 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