RE: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...

One thing I forgot to mention is that blind programmers need to spend
time and effort learning how to write inaccessible programs which fail
on their assistive equipment and the assistive equipment of others.  The
reasoning behind that is that they'll know many programming practices to
avoid and will have a ready defense for either avoiding them or cleaning
them out of other's source code when they do maintenance of other's code
during their careers.  One way to find out about some of this is with
inaccessible open source software by first running the software and
documenting inaccessibility then looking through the source code and
finding out what made that software inaccessible.  Less-3.54 for dos
written for the gnu project I found didn't work with my dos screen
reader so I got the source code and examined it.  I found out why the
code produced inaccessible software too.  Seems the conio.h library was
used rather than the stdio.h library and the cprintf() function got used
instead of the printf() function.  The cprintf() function writes to ram
not to bios int 16 screen writes rather than int 10 screen writes.
Before I tried that version of the less software I had no idea about the
accessibility impact of conio.h asopposed to stdio.h.  That learning
didn't happen in college and happened after I finished college.  I
wonder what else I missed out on learning because college programs don't
spend time going into this particular area of knowledge.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of DaShiell,
Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:30
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...
Importance: Low

Joseph,

The Association For Computing Machinery (professional computer
programmer's union) did the ground work for getting blind people into
computer programming back in the 1970's.  Windows didn't exist then and
as I wrote earlier that put some wrinkles into the possibilities for one
class of blind people.  All of the work and findings the A.C.M. came up
with still holds true for console-based programming for blind people
though, and lists like this and the speakup list which supports the
speakup patch set for Linux accessibility which has been written up in
an issue of Linux Journal magazine as well as the orca list on gnome.com
ought to be clear enough evidence that this line of work is possible
provided the user goes in directions their capabilities will support.
Then of course, there's the nvda list on freelists.org.  The one list
with the most sighted programmers on it that actually build any of these
projects might be the gnome-orca list.  The rest of them have people
with varying degrees of blindness doing the programming.  The people in
the disabled students center would do well to look these resources up on
the web and start contacting the people behind them.  By the way, T.V.
Raman who wrote emacspeak and is blind another emacs speech environment
not a screen reader now works for google in the googleplex.  He is
another possible resource to look up and contact.  Arkansas Enterprises
For the Blind 2811 Fair Park BLVD. Little Rock Arkansas has had a
program to train blind programmers for several years.  I got some of my
training through that program and finished college after that and went
into Government work awhile after that.  I was doing well while DOS was
the main operating system but when Windows took over, suddenly it was
work fit failure city most of the time.  That was even before the
R.N.I.B. study happened.  If I were you now in your present situation,
I'd spend some time studying console-based programming and then do some
courses that don't use the computer and then study graphical user
interface programming.  After that, I'd make up my mind as to which kind
of programming I most enjoyed doing and when career picking time came
along I'd point my feet toward that kind of programming I most enjoyed
doing.  If you're going to get paid, it's criminal to work, better to
enjoy yourself because the only two things that ever come out of that
are that you do better work because you're happier about it and you move
up the promotion line and salary line faster that way.  Even if not
necessarily the salary line, good work in intelligent organizations has
ways of attracting separate awards.  I shouldn't have written this much,
but you did ask for advice.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 19:48
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...

Hi,
Yes, we do have that facility (at least a center for disabled 
students.).  When I talked to them about my situation, they were 
interested in how a blind student can even learn programming.  
Although they have JAWS for Windows (at least school license), 
they don't have a decent things such as loaner laptops and 
braille displays (well, as you know, the budget for California 
schools are tight these days...).
Hope this gives you a fair picture.
Cheers,
Joseph

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "The Elf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date sent: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:33:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...

a question for you, does your college have a disabled student 
center? and
how extensive is it.

when I was working on my computer information systems degree at a 
local
college (well local to where I was living at the time) the 
college had a
decent sized center and extensive additional items like voice 
speech
recognition, and hearing adapted computers in several sections 
and labs,
portable units to install in others, and a disabled student 
tutorial area
with things for almost every disability available, you could also 
get loaner
laptops and Braille displays if needed, so on and so forth.

you might want to call Santa Ana college and find out if Don 
Dutton is still
there, he would be a great resource for your instructors since he 
heads (or
headed if he isn't there now) that adaptive computer center, and 
set up
almost all the equipment around the campus.  (I contributed and 
set up a
couple units in the DSC center but I simply added to his already 
great work
there).

HTH,
elf
"Three things that should NEVER! be brought together; a laptop 
computer, a
full cup of coffee, and a sneeze!"
- Unknown Author-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...


 Hi Inthane,
 Thanks.  I'll pass your email to my professor.
 Cheers,
 Joseph

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "The Elf" <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Date sent: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:04:02 -0700
 Subject: Re: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...

 Joseph,

 you can add me to the list of references, it's been a few years 
but I was
 almost completely through an AA degree in computer information 
systems and
 did math and the rest via computer.

 I think somewhere I have a reference for a math assistance 
application,
 I'll
 take a look and see what I have on hand now.

 take care, and good luck,
 elf
 "Three things that should NEVER! be brought together; a laptop 
computer, a
 full cup of coffee, and a sneeze!"
 - Unknown Author-
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx
 To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:44 AM
 Subject: RE: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...


 Hi Jude,
 Yes, I do have vast memory of vision (I was a low vision kid 
before I got
 glacoma at age 14).  As for user interface, I can picture it in 
my head.
 For now, those are not of my concern, but maybe for future 
classes (there
 is a class just for graphics development at my school, and one 
of the
 professors here is a researcher in this field).
 If you permit me, I'm happy to share your email address (along 
with Black
 Aires) to my professors (especially the graphics researcher) so 
that you
 can assist them.  Thanks for your notes (I'll keep those in 
mind).
 Cheers,
 Joseph

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "DaShiell, Jude T.  CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26" 
<jude.dashiell@xxxxxxxx
 To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Date sent: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 07:26:29 -0400
 Subject: RE: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...

 If memory serves one of the email lists I receive distributed a 
message
 containing R.N.I.B.  summary study results from a study R.N.I.B.
 published in 2009.  The study used 300 participants with all 
levels of
 blindness.  The study's purpose was to discover to what extent 
blind
 people could do graphical user interface software development.  
The
 results shouldn't have been surprising either.  It was found 
that those
 participants who had some memory of vision could do graphical 
user
 interface programming; the longer the memory of vision, the 
easier it
 was for them to do software development.  The participants that 
had no
 memory of vision however had major difficulties with doing that 
kind of
 programming.  In time this will impact windows and software 
development
 platform interfaces that run on windows but that hasn't yet 
happened.  A
 real good analogy to consider on the Linux side is a software 
package
 called xenity.  What xenity does is to inhale a bash script and 
produce
 a graphical user interface-friendly program equivalent that can 
be run
 on gnome with a mouse click.  As I see it, Microsoft made two 
mistakes
 with Windows which until they're corrected the best software for 
those
 of us with no memory of vision to program for will be Linux in 
its
 varied forms.  First, the command line interface was made into a 
very
 poorly equipped environment for software development.  Second, 
if
 someone does console-based development of software within 
Windows to my
 knowledge to date no xenity equivalents yet exist for any 
supported
 software development package now running on Windows; I would 
love to be
 corrected on this point if at all possible even if packages 
under active
 development are all that can be offered as suggestions.



 Rot47: <;F56]52D9:6==@?2GJ]>:=
 -----Original Message-----
 From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Joseph Lee
 Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 17:11
 To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Subject: Any support/suggestions for a blind student...

 Hi veterans, programmers and students,
 For those who does not know me, I am Joseph, a computer science
 sophomore student at University of California, Riverside (UCR).
 My main interests are all about assistive technology and 
computer
 education, more specifically embedded devices, networking and so
 forth.
 One of my CS professors who teaches C++, asked me to ask you if
 you have any suggestions/opinions for learning graphics and
 general mathematics, which I know is important for engineering.
 I thought of using tactile arablets such as so-called "Talking
 Tactile Tablet" or via PIAF (Picture In A Flash).  Since I'm the
 first blind CS student at UCR, the engineering professors there
 are interested in how a blind student can learn programming and
 graphics.  I told the professors there about this list and how
 there are blind programmers (like you guys) who writes GUI apps.
 So, in summary, I'm wondering if there is a programmer here who
 can work with me to come up with a solution - allowing me to
 learn programming effectively from a blindness perspective.  If
 you permit me, I'm willing to pass on your contact information 
to
 the UCR CS faculty so that they can contact you for assistance
 (especially when it comes to learning graphical information such
 as math, hardware organization chart and so forth).  Thanks for
 any assistance on this matter.
 Sincerely,
 Joseph S.  Lee
 University of California, Riverside
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