RE: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash

I agree.

Unfortunately, this is an extremely visual job and I very much doubt that
there are too many accessible ways to get about it.

A web programmer is a job that a blind individual can do quite well, but web
design: truely good looking design and the implementation of that design is
something I've never seen pulled off by someone who is blind.

I have made some rather nice and good looking interfaces, which I mentioned
the last time this argument came up, and those are being used in a touch
screen way by individuals in some hospitals, but to do so on a weekly basis
and for an arbitrary series of designs would be something that is next to
impracticle.

Take care,
Sina
 
________________________________

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 3:04 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash


Yes, a blind person can be a part of a team of web designers, because he can
do some things.
 
But he cannot be a web designer, because in that case he would need to make
what an entire team of web design does. 
The designer should not just place the images or other web page elements,
but he also need to create the javascript that replaces the images with
other images when hovering with the mouse on them, or align the images in
terms of pixels not by their margins, but sometimes by on the elements
contained on some images, and when the layout doesn't look nice he should
crop the images, or add some transparent margins, but if someone else should
do this, than we can say that somebody else should do the biggest part of
the job, while the blind web designer should only type some html attributes.
 
Octavian


        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Peter op 't Hof <mailto:opthofp@xxxxxxxxx>  
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:33 AM
        Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash

        Hi,
         
        The only reason to have any luck in webdesign as a blind person is
to use a content-managementsystem, so the images can be placed or by
users/administrators/publishers or be placed by the blind person self with
exact directions where to put the images whcich are design by an other
person.
        The same goes for forms or charts.
         
        In my current job i do some of the functional design so there are
many more ways to do a propper job in this field.
         
        I do not want to state that a blind person can do it allone.
        He/she has to be part of a team.
         
        Greetings,
         
        Peter op 't Hof.
         

                ----- Original Message ----- 
                From: Octavian Rasnita <mailto:orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>  
                To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:01 PM
                Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash

                If somebody cannot even crop a simple image, that person
cannot call himself a web designer.
                Even a kid can adjust some image or table sizes in an html
document by setting some attributes in some HTML elements, but this doesn't
mean that the person that can do this is a web designer.
                 
                But maybe we speak about different terms. :-)
                 
                See, in my native language, design means something related
to visual things, like clothing design, graphic art. There are even design
faculties that teach the students how to draw, how to do other visual
arrangements that cannot be done by the blind. On the other hand, there are
no faculties specialized only on "web design".
                 
                And something else... The word "design" is very closed to
the word "desen" in my language, and desen means "drawing", so when I hear
about design, I understand that the person that does the design need to be
able to draw, to paint, to do graphics in general.
                 
                And another thing. If somebody should check and recheck and
recheck the work of a web designer in order to see if what he done looks
fine, because he cannot do it, then I don't think that person can name
himself a web designer.
                 
                And by the way, I would like to see a good looking site made
by a blind if there is such a thing. Of course, not good looking and
friendly for the blind, but good looking for the sighted users perspective.
Is there such a thing? If yes, then please show me, because until then I
won't believe that a blind person can work as a web designer.
                 
                Thanks.
                 
                Octavian
                

                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                        From: inthaneelf <mailto:inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

                        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:18 PM
                        Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and flash

                        for that the company has a graphics designer,
someone that specializes in such things, though with the programs I
recommended to Marvin he can reliably size and place graphics on a web page,
and I believe it was on the old programming list, the same place that we had
this discussion last time.  
                         
                        in some places and some smaller companies one person
does the graphics and the web design, in other places and larger companies
the graphics designer and the web designer are two different people and work
in tandem on something like this. 
                         
                        I don't know about slide shows, I don't remember if
that was mentioned by him directly or not, but I do know that folks are
building games in flash for the blind, go to the site I gave and look
around, you will find them.  
                         
                        and it may be a case as with power point, once one
is sure one has the proper materials for a PP presentation, one can
construct a slide show in it.   I have done so, though it was a long time
back so remember working in it, and yes, I remember having to work double
hard and taking the maximum amount of time that we were given for the
project, but I did it, and the project got me a B, so I think I did alright.

                         
                        no, we can't yet work with graphics editing and/or
enhancing directly yet teddy, but that's not always the case in the world,
and stress the not always... as I mentioned above.  
                         
                        regards, 
                        inthane
                        . For Blind Programming assistance, Information,
Useful Programs, and Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and
Applications, visit me at:
                        http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
                        . to be able to view a simple programming project in
several programming languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
                        http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
                        

                                ----- Original Message ----- 
                                From: Octavian Rasnita
<mailto:orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>  
                                To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                                Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:33 AM
                                Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe Photoshop and
flash

                                Where did he spoke?
                                 
                                I am curious how can he create/crop/modify
the images, or how can he create the graphics on a Flash annimation and how
he can verify if what he done is ok.
                                 
                                Where can I read about that?
                                 
                                Octavian
                                

                                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                                        From: inthaneelf
<mailto:inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  
                                        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007
11:03 AM
                                        Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe
Photoshop and flash

                                        here we go with this again, *sigh*
we have had a professional web designer out here, who was and is blind...
invited by James homme, and he spoke long and straight forward about this...

                                         
                                        later, 
                                        inthane
                                        . For Blind Programming assistance,
Information, Useful Programs, and Links to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial
packages and Applications, visit me at:
                                        http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
                                        . to be able to view a simple
programming project in several programming languages, visit the Fruit basket
demo site at:
        
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
                                        

                                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                                        From: Octavian Rasnita
<mailto:orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>  
                                        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                                        Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007
11:25 PM
                                        Subject: Re: Accessible Adobe
Photoshop and flash

                                        Web site development could mean very
many things, so they can tell you to do many things that are absolutely
inaccessible for a blind.
                                         
                                        It could mean server side
programming, client side programming, database development, server and
network administration, and these are accessible, but it could also mean web
design which is not accessible, or so low accessible that it would not help
any blind person to become a professional web designer.
                                         
                                        Discrimination means very many
things also. Nothing could exist without beeing discriminatory for some
persons.
                                        For the blind perspective, something
absolutely not discriminatory would be something which has the same
accessibility level for everyone, no matter if they can see or not.
                                         
                                        In your case, if the other sighted
persons would be able to do what that program requires, without using the
display, it wouldn't be discriminatory, but it couldn't be that way, because
all the sighted persons think that "sighted is normal", while "blind is not
normal".
                                         
                                        In this case, you could ask them to
allow you not to follow the classes that requires using the mouse, because
you cannot use a mouse.
                                        If the professors or other students
would be able to do what you need to do without a mouse but only with the
keyboard, than I think you would be able to do it also.
                                         
                                        Forcing a blind computer programmer
to use a mouse could mean discrimination.
                                         
                                        Octavian
                                        

                                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                                        From: marvin hunkin
<mailto:marvkin@xxxxxxxxxxx>  
                                        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007
7:24 AM
                                        Subject: Accessible Adobe Photoshop
and flash

                                        Hi.
                                        well, next year looking at doing the
diploma in information technology, website development.
                                        a couple of challenges i have, is
that a couple of units, i probably will not be able to do, as one is to use
advanced and basic features of adobe photoshop, to crop, manipulate images,
and create 2d and 3d animation, using adobe flash, as part of my major
project.
                                        Now, the National Traning
Information System, which is governed by a national curriculum, for tafe
across Australia, and comes from the department of education, canberra.
                                        now, as i will have trouble being
deemed competent, because jaws, will not work with this software, as a core
part of the course, and i have spoken to my disability office and the main
lecturer, who organises the learning curriculum and talks to other
lecturers.
                                        they will be using adobe photo shop,
adobe flash.
                                        i know, i could probably use the
flash development kit, but the major challenge is the graphics side of
things.  So they are willing to bend, in their curriculum, as they said i
would have an advantage, if i had sighted help to crop, edit and manipulate
the objects.
                                        so, got any tips, tricks, or any
work arounds for that, or is this a dissability discrimination act
complaint, that might change their mind and bend to accomodate, not just me,
but another vision impaired friend of mine is doing the same diploma with
new south wales tafe, as this is a national curriculum, and has been rolled
out as the new training package for the past 12 months.
                                        if you can let me know, how to get
round this problem, as the other subjects, i should be able to use php,
editor, my sql database, visual studio.net 2005, for the asp stuff, etc.
                                        if anyone has had the same problem
or situation, let me know asap.
                                        having a meeting soon to review what
i have done this year for certificate iv in website development.
                                        cheers marvin.
                                        
                                        
________________________________

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