Re: About lisp
- From: "Bob J." <rjustice004@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:59:07 -0800
From Wikipedia
MUMPS (Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming System), or
alternatively M, is a programming language created in the late 1960s,
originally
for use in the healthcare industry. It was designed to make writing
database-driven applications easy while simultaneously making efficient use
of
computing resources. It was adopted as the language-of-choice for many
healthcare and financial information systems/databases (especially ones
developed in the 1970s and early 1980s) and continues to be used by many of
the
same clients today. It is currently used by the world's largest electronic
health record systems as well as by multiple banking networks and online
trading/investment services.
Because it predates C and most other popular languages in current usage, it
has
very different syntax and terminology. It offers a number of features
unavailable in other languages, including some rarely used programming and
database concepts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: RE: About lisp
I did a project for Exxon back in 1976 or so that was in Mumps. I thought
of it more as a database program than an actual programming language but as
it was more than 30 years ago, so I may have confused it a few times over
the years with other items that have crossed my path.
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:47 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: About lisp
bob,
since your familiar with it, would it be useful still to new programmers and
do you think it is a "stand the test of time" language?
if you feel it is, would you be willing to do a fruit basket demo in it so I
can put it up on the fbd site for reference?
if you wish to, there is a downloadable file with the criteria for the demo
project on the site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
thanks,
inthane
. For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and Links
to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
. to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob J." <rjustice004@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: About lisp
> Last I heard, MUMPS is still alive and well although they now prefer to
> call
> it "M Technology." I retired as a MUMPS programmer about 17 months ago
> from
> the U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs. The curious may find info about
> this ANSI language at
> www.hardhats.org
>
> Bob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Beech" <a.beech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:03 AM
> Subject: RE: About lisp
>
>
> Yikes, Snobol... never thought I'd see that one mentioned again! To add
> to
> the trip down memory lane how about PL/1, ADA, Mumps, Simula64, BCPL,
> Prolog
> and and for good measure Modula-2.
>
> Sigh, the glory days of C... when real programmers didn't eat quiche :)
>
> Cheers.
> AB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble
> Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2008 8:26 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: About lisp
>
> Yes, I think you are right -- there are a lot of general purpose languages
> out there lately. That is curious. It used to be languages were
> application specific -- fortran (formula translation) for engineers,
> snobol
> for string and list processing, a few functional languages for highly
> specialized recursive apps, apl for obfuscated math (sorry, apl read right
> to left and was painfully terse and tool a while getting used to), cobol
> for
>
> people who wanted to program database apps in english *smile*, web
> programming or markup languages for the net when it emerged, and dozens
> more -- when I was working they had application oriented languages (which
> they called AOL's) for use on the phone system software, I think with the
> explosion of AOL's there was a desire to write a general purpose language
> that could do everything. Then smalltalk and eiffel and c++ et al came
> along and then java and c#, and extensions to vb and perl/php to do
> OO-like
> designs, and python and ruby and whatever else...
> My fingers are getting tired *smile*
> So there is many to one and one to many and this keeps hoards of
> programmers
>
> employed as they try to grab the coolest features for their
> projects...*smile*
> I think it's interesting that python is indentation sensitive. Sounds
> like
> a pain for blind programmers that don't look at indentation, but I also
> think it is a plus for those same programmers as it makes for code that
> can
> be shared with sighted programmers.
> Anyway, happy hacking!
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:10 AM
> Subject: RE: About lisp
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I always thought of that other editor as: type vi at the command prompt
> and
> very little will change.
>
> The one thing that I'm a bit curious about these days is why the sudden
> explosion of new languages? For the longest time, a platform had its
> primary language, UNIX, GNU/Linux and DOS used C, Macintosh had some
> dialect
> of Pascal and AppleEvents, mainframes had Fortran and COBOL, VMS had PL/I.
> There were also a lot of narrowly focused languages like Lisp for AI work,
> DB2 for databases, JCL for making your mainframe happy, etc.
>
> In the last few years, though, I see an increasingly large number of
> general
> purpose languages arriving on the scene (Ruby, Python, Lua, C#, J#, Java
> and
> a bunch more) and I can't entirely understand why so many people are
> investing so much time and money in programming languages.
>
> cdh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:38 AM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: About lisp
>
> Hey Chris -- I never heard that historical vignette about emacs -- thanks
> for the flashback! I remember that time period but at the time I was using
> "that other editor", vi, but emacs definitely was a major presence. It's
> funny but it is easy to lapse into nostalgia over cool projects that we
> were
>
> working on back then, especially if the software got popular and used by a
> lot of people, but in the corporate world with management shooting down
> projects like ducks, they used to tell people not to get emotionally
> attached to projects, which a lot of people did, both guys and gals, so
> the
> dynamics were crazy -- but my response to the recommendation not to get
> attached to a project was that after picking bits for 60 hours a week for
> months or years on a piece of software, and seeing it trashed, it really
> wasn't possible to dissociate from a project totally -- you needed to like
> the project in order to put that much effort into it, but projects came
> and
> went so fast you soon learned to be mercenary.
> I think the 80s and 90s were pivotal in computer science though, so small
> bit-picking projects such as DOS for example (not that I ever worked on
> DOS)
>
> exploded into phenomena like Microsoft and windows that took over the
> world,
>
> and the stuff we all did on C++ back in the 80s and 90s also was pivotal,
> and when it started getting popular everyone was trying to jump onto it.
> I
> suppose times are similar now, but not so much as in the 80s and 90s --
> for
> all those currently working in the industry, is that true? My impression
> is
>
> that projects are smaller and more numerous and come and go more quickly.
> Happy hacking all!
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:03 AM
> Subject: RE: About lisp
>
>
> Of course, you are correct I wasn't referring to a GUI for programming in
> Lisp as, back in those days, emacs was the Lisp programming environment
> for
> Lisp hacking and virtually all of those guys agreed upon it as the best
> solution. Goz wrote the first emacs in some strange system that was
> difficult and even more difficult to modify. Stallman and the others
> agreed
> that Lisp was the perfect language for making editors and other tools like
> them and thus was born the emacs we all know and love. When Goz went off
> to
> commercialize all of the cool system tools made around the AI lab in those
> days, he took the Lisp version and called it UniPress emacs. Stallman and
> the others founding Project GNU gave distributed the Lisp based one as GNU
> emacs.
>
> Getting all nostalgic again: back in those years UniPress ran a monthly
> full
> page advert in UNIX World with a whole bunch of heads in shadow on a grey
> background with quotes on why they preferred Gosmacs. At FSF, we took a
> bit
> of our fundraising budget and got photos of a big chunk of the computer
> science pantheon (including Minsky, McCarthy, Guy Steele, Hal Abelson,
> Gerry
> Sussman, Rodney Brooks, Patrick Winston, Knuth, Bob Boyer and others whom
> I
> cannot think of with my caffeine mg to hour ratio so dangerously low) and,
> arranged exactly like their ad but with the text, "GNU Emacs Users Aren't
> Afraid to Show Our Faces," and, under each giant of the field a quote
> praising both emacs and another extolling project GNU or the concept of
> free
> software.
>
> We believe we won the day when Unipress had a totally different ad the
> following month saying something about how one can never know what they
> may
> get if they use a program that includes the source. We fired back with a
> one luminary per month advertisement series saying exactly why the GNU
> versions were more stable, more secure and, of course, you don't have to
> wait for some programmers in New Jersey to fix bugs because you already
> have
> the source and can do it yourself. In those years, the proportion of
> people
> who read UNIX World who were also programmers of some sort was pretty
> huge.
>
> Sina, I know you aren't fond of emacs but, keep in mind, this debate was
> going on about a decade before you were born and anything that even
> approached a integrated development environment was radically cool. Over
> that decade, we added so much like full integration with lots of
> languages,
> gdb and so many other cool things that people take entirely for granted
> these days. It was a real exciting time to be around the lab, around GNU
> and, if one had an interest in programming tools, I doubt any other point
> in
> space time (except maybe at Parc Place when Adele was in charge) could
> even
> give the slightest indication of what it felt like. Knowing you as well
> as
> I do, I think you would have felt as though you had stumbled into Xanadu
> if,
> at 21 years old, you were like many of the other guys your age who made
> that
> stuff happen in the lab back then.
>
> I'll go start the history/mid-life crisis list later today.
>
> Enjoy,
> cdh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:24 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: About lisp
>
> It's interesting that you mentioned a novel windowing system and not a
> graphics interface for programmers. *smile*, two quite separate things.
> One
> deals in abstract terms involving stacks, queues, overlays, priority
> scheduling, possibly coordinate management, and so on. The other deals
> with
> setting the background color to red, defining buttons inside of classes
> for
> windows, and generally very dirty looking code. The former can be quite
> beautiful, and still is, in lisp, the latter is hardly beautiful in any
> language, especially in lisp.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris
> Hofstader
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:55 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: About lisp
>
> The first known windowing system was written by Richard Greenblatt in Lisp
> at MIT when he was still a student. He would later go onto Director of AI
> and then form LMI (Lisp Machines Incorporated) which would be at the
> center
> of the controversy that would pit Greenblatt/Stallman and the free
> software
> people (Hal, Jerry, Rod, etc.) against those who would form Symbolics and
> the other proprietary source companies that just took the work from the AI
> Lab and commercialized it.
>
> No one really remembers Symbolics or Goz and that crowd nor does anyone
> remember LMI. Greenblatt's Sleazy Windowing System, however, has a solid
> place in history. Unfortunately, Greenblatt and his crew had to invent a
> new computer designed specifically to run Lisp and the windowing system as
> nothing on the market had either the horsepower or the kinds of processor
> instructions needed to run Lisp with any efficiency back then.
>
> cdh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:55 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: About lisp
>
>
>
> I want to agree with Sina here if your going to write Lisp write lisp
> don't
> try to shove GUI into it cause that just spells guilisp and unless you
> have
> the flew you don't need that.
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:37 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: About lisp
>
> Ken did a great job with that one, and he realized a great deal of the
> headache that goes into lisp and GUI programming, but I will say that it
> is
> a horrible example of lisp. This has nothing at all to do with Ken's code,
> which is great. It's just that the lisp fruit basket is not representative
> of the really powerful phrasings of most problems that can exist in lisp,
> and instead it ends up being multi-line calls of special parameters to
> functions to design a win32 dialog.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:23 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: About lisp
>
> I believe I have some info on lisp in the definitions file for the fruit
> basket demo version in that language, either that or I got some info from
> one of the computer dictionaries on a search from it, both of which have
> links on the fruit basket home page.
>
> HTH,
> Inthane
> . For Blind Programming assistance, Information, Useful Programs, and
> Links
> to Jamal Mazrui's Text tutorial packages and Applications, visit me at:
> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
> . to be able to view a simple programming project in several programming
> languages, visit the Fruit basket demo site at:
> http://fruitbasketdemo.alacorncomputer.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tribble" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:20 AM
> Subject: Re: About lisp
>
>
>> Re: apl
>> I wonder if it was just one of those academic languages there only for
>> the purpose of teaching a comparative language class... Which leads
>> me to the
>> following: Did anyone ever program in a language called icon? It was
>> popular when I got my masters, but I haven't heard of it lately...
>> --le
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Hofstader" <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:05 AM
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>>
>> I never even met someone who programmed in APL. My brother made his
>> living in SmallTalk and all of its graphicality for a while but now
>> he's working for Microsoft and, I'd assume, he works using their
>> languages.
>>
>> cdh
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
>> Bahram
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:41 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: About lisp
>>
>> APL is such an amazingly cool sounding language ... I really tried to
>> get into it a while back, but it's not easy to program in a graphical
>> programming language, *grin*
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of tribble
>> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:15 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: About lisp
>>
>> ah yes, snobol -- loved that language -- memories -- the runtime
>> environment we used to run snobol was called spitbol (kind of weird)
>> -- did you ever write anything in apl? That was a fun one also that
>> stretched the mind a bit. I don't know about current use of lisp.
>> --le
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Macarty, Jay {PBSG}" <Jay.Macarty@xxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:01 PM
>> Subject: About lisp
>>
>>
>> Sina,
>> Way back in the day, I took a course on languages which covered about
>> 8 different ones in a single course. Probably the most obscure of
>> these was snobol for which a class mate and I wrote an interpreter. I
>> recall studying lisp but was wondering what it is generally used for
>> these days and if a free command line compiler is available?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
>> Bahram
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:03 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>
>> You're absolutely correct my friend. Needless to say I feel extremely
>> bad about this. Sorry!
>>
>> I sat down and wrote out -127 in twos complement and realized I can
>> also represent -128.
>>
>> Obviously this applies to 32 bit representations and so on, as well.
>>
>> Sorry again ... It appears that programming in lisp and java have
>> dulled my senses.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nirandas
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:02 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>
>>
>> Hi Sina,
>> As I understand, a byte can contain 256 unique values. So a signed
>> byte's maximum and minimum range should be -128 to 127 not
>> -127 to 127.
>>
>>
>> Nirandas
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sina Bahram <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:50 AM
>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>
>>
>> Again, I'm sorry for the disagreement, but there are several flaws in
>> this explanation. I've attempted to correct them below.
>>
>> The standard byte's signed values are -127 to 127, not -128 to 127 ...
>> it's being picky, but this is extremely important and the source of
>> 90% of most security flaws today.
>>
>> A standard word is a misnomer. This assumes a two byte word which is
>> only true on 16-bit architecture. A word can be 16 bits, 32-bits, or
>> even
>> 11 bits
>> in some platforms ... it just depends. A double word can be 32 bits,
>> but it can also be 16 bits in some platforms or not even supported in
>> others, so there is no standard here.
>>
>> However, using twos complement, I must again clarrify the minimum and
>> maximum of a 16 bit value, since it is not -32768 to 32767, I'm
>> afraid, but is instead -32767 to 32767
>>
>> As for a 32 bit value, the minimum and maximum are as follows.
>>
>> Using twos complement, the signed minimum and maximum of a 32-bit
>> integer are -2147483647 to 2147483647 , and the minimum and maximum of
>> an unsigned
>> 32 bit integer are 0 to 4294967295
>>
>> Hope this clears things up.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian D.
>> Nichols
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:40 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>
>> Hi Listers,
>>
>> As I see it, things have become a little muddled here, both in James's
>> message and in Sina's reply.
>>
>> The standard byte is still 8 bits, containing unsigned values of 0 to
>> 255 and signed values of -128 to +127.
>>
>> The word contains 16 bits, with unsigned values of 0 to 65535, and
>> signed values of -32768 to +32767.
>>
>> The double word contains 32 bits, with very large values possible.
>> Unsigned, 0 to 4 thousand millions, and signed values from -2
>> thousand millions to + 2 thousand millions, more or less.
>>
>> I hope I've got my thinking straight on that, and haven't caused
>> further confusion.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> Ian D. Nichols,
>> Toronto, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:58 PM
>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>
>>
>> A few things. big endian versus little endian is arbritrary, so it's
>> not a fact with respect to storage.
>>
>> More importantly, the minimum and maximum of a signed 32 bit integer
>> is not
>> -65535 to 65535, it's actually -32767 to 32767
>>
>> If it is signed, then it is 0 to 65535
>>
>> At the end of the day, you only have 2^16 permutations of 16 bits in a
>> binary system; thus, you have a maximum of 65536 positions, and so you
>> have half as much capacity if you are using twos complement to allow
>> for both negative numbers and the concept of 0.
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James
>> Panes
>> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:35 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>
>> Yes, Hexidecimal numbers are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D,
>> E, F for a total of 16 possible digit values.
>>
>> As stated before, this is much more convenient for the computer as
>> 16 is an
>> even power of 2 and computers actually use binary, 0 and 1. The
>> hexidecimal representation is actually easier for humans to read than
>> binary.
>> Hexidecimal digits are grouped into groups of 2 for a total of 16 x
>> 16 or
>> 256 possible values. This is a standard byte. Before unicode, a single
>> byte value was used to represent an alphanumeric character and two
>> bytes or a word were used to represent a 32 bit integer with values
>> possible from
>> -65535 to 65535. This explains the limit of the size of variables in
>> older games.
>>
>> The original Intel 8086 processor had 16 bit registers. Operations for
>> anything larger had to be synthisized with software.
>>
>> What's more, for integer values larger than 255, the least significant
>> pair of digits is stored first. For example, if you were looking for
>> the value
>> 301 (decimal) in a game save file, you would find it represented as
>> 23 01 in
>> the save file.
>>
>> Since this list is about programming and not game save file hacking, I
>> will end my lecture here.
>>
>> Anyone with further interest in this topic can write me off-list
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jim
>> jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
>> jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> "Everything is easy when you know how."
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Valiant (on laptop)" <valiant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>
>>
>> Hi.
>> I didn't see anyone mention this part about hex.
>> Hex is just another number scale like the standard one 0 to 9 or the
>> binary one 0 to 1. Hex is 0 to f I think, making it bass 16, where the
>> one we use every day 0 to 9 is bass 10 and binary is bass, hmm,
>> someone help? 0 to 1?
>> The possible digits in hex are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, b, c, d,
>> e, f can't remember if hex starts with 0. It lets you have larger
>> numbers without taking up as much space. MAC addresses on networking
>> equipment use it.
>> some of that could be wrong, it's been two whole years since I had to
>> study that, here.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:03 PM
>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>
>>
>> 21, but yes he is, Thanks Chris
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon
>> Brandão de Sousa
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:12 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: what is Hex?
>>
>> Are you serious about Sina being 22 years old only? Man I have seen
>> people who have studied computers for many more than this quantity of
>> years and don't seen to know a half of what Sina knows easily ...
>> Marlon
>>
>> 2008/2/15, Chris Hofstader <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
>>> God Sina, you bring back memories of Z80 and needing to "poke"
>>> instructions and data into memory before execution. I would have
>>> thought you, who was born in 1986 would never had to get to that
>>> level. Personally, I think it's a really valuable exercise even
>> if
>>> one never actually needs to use it in a "real" program just to get
>> a
>> better understanding of what a processor "sees"
>>> and how base 16 numbers can be turned into both instructions and
>> data
>>> depending upon how the processor looks at them.
>>>
>>> In the network edition of "Bank Street Writer" a word processing
>>> program written entirely in assembly, that was pretty popular in
>> the
>>> years before you learned to talk, I added a function called,
>>> "DON'T_CALL_THIS." If you did call it the program would crash as
>> the
>>> instructions looked random. If, however, you looked at the last
>>> handful of bytes of the program as ASCII, it read "FSMITHISAWORM."
>>> Frank Smith, a really great guy, was the client on the gig and we
>>> decided to immortalize him in an Easter Egg that only an ubergeek
>> could
>> find.
>>>
>>> Now, just for shits and giggles, try to reconstruct the function
>> in
>>> 80x86 assembly and receive the truly wasted chunk of time award.
>>>
>>> cdh
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
>>> Bahram
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:28 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: RE: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> *smile*, wlel actually, if you really want to get down to it ...
>> it can
>> be.
>>>
>>> Assembler compiles down to executable instructions to the
>> processor,
>>> which are most often and most easily read in hex.
>>>
>>> I used to know almost all of the 8086 instructions and some of
>> their
>>> hex equivalents a while back. It's really useful when analysing
>>> exploit and virus code.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Sina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>> Hall
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:47 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: re: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> Right, but it almost sounds like some sort of programming
>> language.
>>>
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> >From: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:27:12 -0800
>>> >Subject: re: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> >Hi Alex,
>>> >It's a shortened form of hexadecimal.
>>> >Cheers,
>>> >Joseph
>>>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>From: Alex Hall <mehgcap@xxxxxxx
>>> >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >>Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:18:21 -0500
>>> >>Subject: what is Hex?
>>>
>>> >>Hi all
>>> >>Whatis this Hex that has been talked about
>>> >recently?
>>>
>>> >>Have a great day,
>>> >>Alex
>>> >>__________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
>> stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
>> free."
>> Linus Torvalds
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