RE: About lisp

Chris,
I like the idea of the "BlindMidLifeCrisisHackers" list. *smile* And now, as I 
read the comments on lisp, I think it would have been an interesting exercise 
if my class mate and I had used lisp to write the interpreter for SNOBOL; thus, 
jumping head long into 2 different challenges. Ah, but those were the days. 
*smile* 
  

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Chris Hofstader
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:56 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: About lisp

Ok, now, for the first time since 1979, I've found another person who has
publicly stated knowledge of the existence of SNOBOL/V, one of the most
peculiar languages I've ever encountered.  I too got my exposure to this
profound bit of obscurity in a class called "Programming Languages" in the
second semester of my freshman year.  This is really turning into a
nostalgia list for me.

Maybe we should spin off a "BlindMidLifeCrisisHackers" mailing list so we
can share "kids these days..." stories <laugh>.

cdh

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macarty, Jay
{PBSG}
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 6:01 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: About lisp

Sina,
Way back in the day, I took a course on languages which covered about 8
different ones in a single course. Probably the most obscure of these was
snobol for which a class mate and I wrote an interpreter. I recall studying
lisp but was wondering what it is generally used for these days and if a
free command line compiler is available?

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina Bahram
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:03 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: what is Hex?

You're absolutely correct my friend. Needless to say I feel extremely bad
about this. Sorry!

I sat down and wrote out -127 in twos complement and realized I can also
represent -128.

Obviously this applies to 32 bit representations and so on, as well.

Sorry again ... It appears that programming in lisp and java have dulled my
senses.

Take care,
Sina
 
________________________________

From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nirandas
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 12:02 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: what is Hex?


Hi Sina,
As I understand, a byte can contain 256 unique values. So a signed byte's
maximum and minimum range should be -128 to 127 not
-127 to 127.
 
 
Nirandas

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Sina Bahram <mailto:sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>  
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:50 AM
        Subject: RE: what is Hex?
        
        
        Again, I'm sorry for the disagreement, but there are several flaws
in this
        explanation. I've attempted to correct them below.
        
        The standard byte's signed values are -127 to 127, not -128 to 127
... it's
        being picky, but this is extremely important and the source of 90%
of most
        security flaws today.
        
        A standard word is a misnomer. This assumes a two byte word which is
only
        true on 16-bit architecture. A word can be 16 bits, 32-bits, or even
11 bits
        in some platforms ... it just depends. A double word can be 32 bits,
but it
        can also be 16 bits in some platforms or not even supported in
others, so
        there is no standard here.
        
        However, using twos complement, I must again clarrify the minimum
and
        maximum of a 16 bit value, since it is not -32768 to 32767, I'm
afraid, but
        is instead -32767 to 32767
        
        As for a 32 bit value, the minimum and maximum are as follows.
        
        Using twos complement, the signed minimum and maximum of a 32-bit
integer
        are -2147483647 to 2147483647 , and the minimum and maximum of an
unsigned
        32 bit integer are 0 to 4294967295
        
        Hope this clears things up.
        
        Take care,
        Sina
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian D.
Nichols
        Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:40 PM
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Re: what is Hex?
        
        Hi Listers,
        
        As I see it, things have become a little muddled here, both in
James's
        message and in Sina's reply.
        
        The standard byte is still 8 bits, containing unsigned values of 0
to 255
        and signed values of -128 to +127.
        
        The word contains 16 bits, with unsigned values of 0 to 65535, and
signed
        values of -32768 to +32767.
        
        The double word contains 32 bits, with very large values possible. 
        Unsigned, 0 to 4 thousand millions, and signed values  from -2
thousand
        millions to + 2 thousand millions, more or less.
        
        I hope I've got my thinking straight on that, and haven't caused
further
        confusion.
        
        All the best,
        
        Ian
        
        Ian D. Nichols,
        Toronto, Canada
        
        
        
        
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
        To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:58 PM
        Subject: RE: what is Hex?
        
        
        A few things. big endian  versus little endian is arbritrary, so
it's not a
        fact with respect to storage.
        
        More importantly, the minimum and maximum of a signed 32 bit integer
is not
        -65535 to 65535, it's actually -32767 to 32767
        
        If it is signed, then it is 0 to 65535
        
        At the end of the day, you only have 2^16 permutations of 16 bits in
a
        binary system; thus, you have a maximum of 65536 positions, and so
you have
        half as much capacity if you are using twos complement to allow for
both
        negative numbers and the concept of 0.
        
        Hope this helps
        
        Take care,
        Sina
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of James
Panes
        Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:35 PM
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Re: what is Hex?
        
        Yes, Hexidecimal numbers are 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C,
D, E, F
        for a total of 16 possible digit values.
        
        As stated before, this is much more convenient for the computer as
16 is an
        even power of 2 and computers actually use binary, 0 and 1. The
hexidecimal
        representation is actually easier for humans to read than binary.
        Hexidecimal digits are grouped into groups of 2 for a total of 16 x
16 or
        256 possible values. This is a standard byte. Before unicode, a
single byte
        value was used to represent an alphanumeric character and two bytes
or a
        word were used to represent a 32 bit integer with values possible
from
        -65535 to 65535. This explains the limit of the size of variables in
older
        games.
        
        The original Intel 8086 processor had 16 bit registers. Operations
for
        anything larger had to be synthisized with software.
        
        What's more, for integer values larger than 255, the least
significant pair
        of digits is stored first. For example, if you were looking for the
value
        301 (decimal) in a game save file, you would find it represented as
23 01 in
        the save file.
        
        Since this list is about programming and not game save file hacking,
I will
        end my lecture here.
        
        Anyone with further interest in this topic can write me off-list
        
        Regards,
        Jim
        jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
        jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
        "Everything is easy when you know how."
        
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Valiant (on laptop)" <valiant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:43 AM
        Subject: Re: what is Hex?
        
        
        Hi.
        I didn't see anyone mention this part about hex.
        Hex is just another number scale like the standard one 0 to 9 or the
binary
        one 0 to 1. Hex is 0 to f I think, making it bass 16, where the one
we use
        every day 0 to 9 is bass 10 and binary is bass, hmm, someone help? 0
to 1?
        The possible digits in hex are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, a, b, c,
d, e, f
        can't remember if hex starts with 0. It lets you have larger numbers
without
        taking up as much space. MAC addresses on networking equipment use
it.
        some of that could be wrong, it's been two whole years since I had
to study
        that, here.
        
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>
        To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:03 PM
        Subject: RE: what is Hex?
        
        
        21, but yes he is, Thanks Chris
        
        Take care,
        Sina
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Marlon
Brandão
        de Sousa
        Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:12 PM
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: Re: what is Hex?
        
        Are you serious about Sina being 22 years old only? Man I have seen
people
        who have studied computers for many more than this quantity of years
and
        don't seen to know a half of what Sina knows easily ...
        Marlon
        
        2008/2/15, Chris Hofstader <chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
        > God Sina, you bring back memories of Z80 and needing to "poke"
        > instructions and data into memory before execution.  I would have
        > thought you, who was born in 1986 would never had to get to that
        > level.  Personally, I think it's a really valuable exercise even
if
        > one never actually needs to use it in a "real" program just to get
a
        better understanding of what a processor "sees"
        > and how base 16 numbers can be turned into both instructions and
data
        > depending upon how the processor looks at them.
        >
        > In the network edition of "Bank Street Writer" a word processing
        > program written entirely in assembly, that was pretty popular in
the
        > years before you learned to talk, I added a function called,
        > "DON'T_CALL_THIS."  If you did call it the program would crash as
the
        > instructions looked random.  If, however, you looked at the last
        > handful of bytes of the program as ASCII, it read "FSMITHISAWORM."
        > Frank Smith, a really great guy, was the client on the gig and we
        > decided to immortalize him in an Easter Egg that only an ubergeek
could
        find.
        >
        > Now, just for shits and giggles, try to reconstruct the function
in
        > 80x86 assembly and receive the truly wasted chunk of time award.
        >
        > cdh
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sina
        > Bahram
        > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:28 PM
        > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        > Subject: RE: what is Hex?
        >
        > *smile*, wlel actually, if you really want to get down to it ...
it can
        be.
        >
        > Assembler compiles down to executable instructions to the
processor,
        > which are most often and most easily read in hex.
        >
        > I used to know almost all of the 8086 instructions and some of
their
        > hex equivalents a while back. It's really useful when analysing
        > exploit and virus code.
        >
        > Take care,
        > Sina
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
Hall
        > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:47 PM
        > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        > Subject: re: what is Hex?
        >
        > Right, but it almost sounds like some sort of programming
language.
        >
        > Have a great day,
        > Alex
        >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > >From: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxxxxx
        > >To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        > >Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:27:12 -0800
        > >Subject: re: what is Hex?
        >
        > >Hi Alex,
        > >It's a shortened form of hexadecimal.
        > >Cheers,
        > >Joseph
        >
        > >> ----- Original Message -----
        > >>From: Alex Hall <mehgcap@xxxxxxx
        > >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        > >>Date sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:18:21 -0500
        > >>Subject: what is Hex?
        >
        > >>Hi all
        > >>Whatis this Hex that has been talked about
        > >recently?
        >
        > >>Have a great day,
        > >>Alex
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        --
        When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
stare at
        you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for free."
        Linus Torvalds
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